About dwarf women - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Formendacil · 01-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neithan

It's scary for us, but we are not Dwarves.

For which I am eternally thankful...

However, my main point is that these are the only two ideas that I can come up with that would explain Tolkien's statement. Any ideas from someone else are fine with me. I'm certainly not tied to either theory...

Legolas · 01-13-2005, 05:04 PM

Quote:

but it is true and is in either UT or HoME .....I will check the ref... my guess would be "The Peoples of Middle Earth".

As stated in the original post of this thread, the reference is in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

Appendix A, 'Annals of the Kings and Rulers;' III - Durin's Folk.

Mithalwen · 01-16-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas

As stated in the original post of this thread, the reference is in the appendices of The Lord of the Rings.

Appendix A, 'Annals of the Kings and Rulers;' III - Durin's Folk.

Yes, but it doesn't specifically mention beards in the appendix (although I admit they are implied) I think the beardedness of dwarf women is stated explicitly in HoME although I have not yet had a chance to look.

It does raise some other fairly boggling questions which probably should be left well alone...

Edit .. for some reason when I posted this the screen hadn't brought up the last posts which raised some of those disturbing questions!

Thinlómien · 01-20-2005, 07:33 AM

I've just been more about this...
If four of Thorin's companions were women and it's not mentioned in the story itself, how many of the dwarves we've coma along could be women? Just thinking about all dwarves in Tolkien's books...

Well, seriously, probably no one, because there aren't very much female main characters in Tolkien's books and those dwarves mentioned are usually kings or great warriors and not many of Tolkien's women are "warheros" (except Éowyn and so on...).

So the question I thought about: The Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Some of them were women? Dwarves are, in my opinion, very patriarchaic (?) people. So some of their most highly regarded ancestors being women doesn't sound very smart. But some of them, at least one, had to be women/woman, because otherwise the dwarves would have died to extinction, because men can't reproduce without women. Any ideas about this?

Formendacil · 01-20-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So the question I thought about: The Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Some of them were women? Dwarves are, in my opinion, very patriarchaic (?) people. So some of their most highly regarded ancestors being women doesn't sound very smart. But some of them, at least one, had to be women/woman, because otherwise the dwarves would have died to extinction, because men can't reproduce without women. Any ideas about this?

If I recall correctly, Tolkien's final opinion on the subject was that in addition to the Seven Fathers, there were also Six Mothers, who were laid together with one of the Seven Fathers, except for the Eldest, Durin. Durin later ended up wedding one of the progeny of the other Six Fathers.

Thinlómien · 01-21-2005, 03:03 AM

That sounds correct to me, though I haven't ever heard about it.

04-28-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

If I recall correctly, Tolkien's final opinion on the subject was that in addition to the Seven Fathers, there were also Six Mothers, who were laid together with one of the Seven Fathers, except for the Eldest, Durin. Durin later ended up wedding one of the progeny of the other Six Fathers.

i find this kind of odd since it is written that durin woke upp long before all the other dwarves

Bêthberry · 05-28-2006, 08:12 AM

Hmmm. What might have inspired or prompted Tolkien to imagine or create bearded dwarven women?

Was he conceiving of some kind of sexual boundary shifting? Both the Ents and the Dwarves apparently as races 'die out' and both have female members who are somehow beyond the pale of female norms. The entwives are said to prefer too much control or power over the natural world. Dwarven women with their beards are indistinguishable from dwarven males and few in number.

And if this is the case, does the disappearance of the race suggest a comment on this boundary shifting?

Or is Tolkien merely drawing upon old legends to populate his race? Why did Terry Pratchett give his female dwarves beards--a nod to Tolkien? This appears to be a feature of fantasy.

What's with the cultural meaning of hair in Middle-earth?

See also Bearded Women in Wikipedia

05-28-2006, 08:12 AM	#8
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Hair, hair, hair, long beautiful hair, flow it show it long as God can grow it Hmmm. What might have inspired or prompted Tolkien to imagine or create bearded dwarven women? Was he conceiving of some kind of sexual boundary shifting? Both the Ents and the Dwarves apparently as races 'die out' and both have female members who are somehow beyond the pale of female norms. The entwives are said to prefer too much control or power over the natural world. Dwarven women with their beards are indistinguishable from dwarven males and few in number. And if this is the case, does the disappearance of the race suggest a comment on this boundary shifting? Or is Tolkien merely drawing upon old legends to populate his race? Why did Terry Pratchett give his female dwarves beards--a nod to Tolkien? This appears to be a feature of fantasy. What's with the cultural meaning of hair in Middle-earth? See also Bearded Women in Wikipedia __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

01-20-2005, 07:33 AM	#4
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I've just been more about this... If four of Thorin's companions were women and it's not mentioned in the story itself, how many of the dwarves we've coma along could be women? Just thinking about all dwarves in Tolkien's books... Well, seriously, probably no one, because there aren't very much female main characters in Tolkien's books and those dwarves mentioned are usually kings or great warriors and not many of Tolkien's women are "warheros" (except Éowyn and so on...). So the question I thought about: The Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Some of them were women? Dwarves are, in my opinion, very patriarchaic (?) people. So some of their most highly regarded ancestors being women doesn't sound very smart. But some of them, at least one, had to be women/woman, because otherwise the dwarves would have died to extinction, because men can't reproduce without women. Any ideas about this?

01-21-2005, 03:03 AM	#6
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	That sounds correct to me, though I haven't ever heard about it.