Lewis Carroll's Influence on Tolkien

[Morquesse]

Child, I also thought of the Snergs as a main influence for Tolkien's Hobbits. I managed to find a publisher who recently started puting Snergs in print. Here's the location: oldearthbooks.com. I'm getting a copy at the end of the month, so we'll need to start a thread on that.

lmp, your posts indicate to me that Tolkien liked Silvie and Bruno and not Alice. I read Humphrey Carpenter's biography and the book indicates that Tolkien liked Alice as a child (or somewhere I read). Are you saying that Tolkien didn't think of Alice as fantasy nor faerie-story, and simply that? Or that Tolkien really didn't like the book? Just trying to clearify.

~M

[littlemanpoet]

I've been reading Sylvie and Bruno, curious to see what their charm could have been for Tolkien. I must say, though I am not finished with the second book yet, I have yet to discover it. ... [Carroll's works] seem much more conventional and their realm has little to do with Faery as shown to us in Smith of Wootton Major.- Estelyn Telcontar

I agree with you, Esty. I hope I didn't suggest that they were as good as Tolkien! Sorry if I led you to expect that! Consider Tolkien's position as a reader, rarely finding anything that was up to his standard. Carroll probably did as well as he could considering what he had to work with.

Are you saying that Tolkien didn't think of Alice as fantasy nor faerie-story, and simply that? Or that Tolkien really didn't like the book? - Morquesse

Good to see you around again, Morquesse! My comment was based on my reading of On Fairy Stories. I also noticed the mention in Carpenter's biography, and that was my basis for my own comment, which it turns out, was incorrect:

He was amused by Alice in Wonderland, though he had no desire to have adventures like Alice.

On the face of it, this comment is not as helpful as I had originally thought, since he also said that he greatly desired dragons, but certainly didn't want to meet one! Still, I think his lack of desire in each case is different. With Alice, it's distaste, whereas with dragons, it's self-preservation!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I added something to that Gardener's Song link above, and yes - it is Tolkien-related. Here's my little poem:

He thought he saw an Oxford don
who wrote a children's book.
He looked again, and found it was
the grandson of a Took.
"If Alice had the Ring", he said,
"Where would the Eye then look?"