What are the Two Towers?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

You have a personal title, and you do not know this? Mr. Wight, I think someone needs to be stripped of a title!

Hush, Adam.

I know one of them is bound to be Orthanc (Book 3's Tower). But what about the other? Is it Minas Morgul (where Frodo, Sam, and Sméagol passed through to Mordor)? Or is it Barad-dûr (as said in the movie)?

Or am I wrong in my ideas entirely and should stick to reading the tabloids? Help!

[Fingolfin II]

I always thought it was Orthanc and Barad-Dur. But now that you mention it, it could be Cirith Ungol. However, I'm leaning towards it being Orthanc and Barad-Dur, which are the two main strongholds of the two supreme antagonists. It makes more sense and besides, Barad-Dur is more 'important' in the sense that it is the residence of Sauron and is reflective of his strength, whereas Cirth Ungol is a subsidiary of his power and the residence of his lieutenant. Still, you never know! (Well, I guess you do, if someone answers this question better than me).

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Yes, Barad-dûr was one of my choices, because, along with Orthanc, it is the most important tower for evil.

But I wonder if the immediate doesn't have anything to do with the choice of names. And, since Frodo passed Minas Morgul, that might be another plausible choice.

Oh, and Fin2, Frodo and Sam have yet to personally encounter Cirith Ungol. So I don't think it's one of the choices. Although:

Still, you never know!
(Well, I guess you do, if someone answers this question better than me). (Fin2)

applies to me, to.

[Firefoot]

I've always wondered if the term didn't refer to something more symbollic (as well as the towers themselves). TTT is the only book that is completely split between Frodo and Sam and the rest of the Fellowship. So maybe it refers to the two different directions the book takes? The two really don't touch each other at all, except for a few references ("I wonder where Frodo and Sam are now" type things). Even the first part of RotK is much more in touch with Frodo and Sam and the Ring (partially helped by Faramir's news) than the first part of TTT, where they don't seem to be as big of an immediate concern.

So that's my theory, make of it what you will.

[Soronumë]

Barad-Dur and Orthanc, that's my guess too... Since Sauron and Saruman were connected to eachother by palantírs...
But of course, I can be (and that's most likely that I am) wrong...

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, it appears that Tolkien himself was not wholly decided on the issue and preferred that it be left ambiguous. If pressed, however, it seems that he would have nominated Orthanc and the Tower of Cirith Ungol, although his original jacket design depicted Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

Here are some illuminating extracts from The Letters on this issue:

The Two Towers gets as near as possible to finding a title to cover the widely divergent Books 3 and 4; and can be left ambiguous — it might refer to Isengard and Barad-dûr, or to Minas Tirith and
B[arad-dûr]; or Isengard and Cirith Ungol.

Letter #140 (to Rayner Unwin, dated 17 August 1953)

I am not really happy about the title 'the Two Towers'. It must if there is any real reference in it to Vol II refer to Orthanc and The Tower of Cirith Ungol. But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading.

Letter #143 (to Rayner Unwin, dated 22 January 1954)

In the editorial notes, it states:

In his original design for the jacket of The Two Towers the towers are certainly Orthanc and Minas Morgul ... Minas Morgul is a white tower, with a thin waning moon above it, in reference to it's original name, Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Rising Moon.

The first of the quotes above also touches upon the symbolic nature of the title pointed out by Firefoot.

Since I do not have my books with me, the quotes above are provided courtesy of Diamond18's post in the second of the threads linked to below, all of which provide further thoughts on this point:

Two Towers?

Which towers are the Two Towers?

Towers

[Boromir88]

While it appears, as SpM points out, that Tolkien wasn't sure what he ment by the Two Towers, we could still form our guesses. I would say it's Isengard and Barad-dur.

If we look in The Breaking of the Fellowship, when Frodo is upon Amon Hen, there are places mentioned. Isengard, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, and Barad-dur. I don't want to quote the whole thing, since it's like a page, so it will only be the parts I'm looking at. If you wish to see the whole thing, well you know where it is.

After part about the Misty Mountains, and Anduin, Isengard is mentioned...

Westward he looked and saw the broad pastures of Rohan; and Orthanc, the pinnacle of Isengard, like a black spike.

Then turning south again he beheld Minas Tirith. Far away it seemed, and beautiful: white walled, many-towered, proud and fair upon its mountain-seat, its battlements glittered with steel, and its turrets were bright with many banners.

But against Minas Tirith was set another fortress, greater and more strong. Thither, eastward, unwilling his eye was drawn. It passed the ruined bridges of Osgiliath, the grinning gates of Minas Morgul, and the haunted Mountains,....

Then at last his gaze was held: wall upon wall, battlement upon battlement, black, immeasurably strong, mountain of iron, gate of steel, tower of adamant, he saw it: Barad-dur, Fortress of Sauron.

These are 4 of the places being discusses that could be The "Two" Towers. Seeing that it is "Two" Towers, I think that excludes Minas Tirith, since it is "many-towered." Minas Morgul is compared to Minas Tirith, as being even greater and stronger, so that excludes Minas Morgul.

Barad-dur, the "tower" of adament, and Orthanc, the "pinnacle" of Isengard. Pinnacle=Tower. That's just my argument for the story, since Tolkien wasn't sure, and has a wide range of possibilities, we won't know, this is just how I think of it.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

It is interesting to note that Peter Jackson's interpretation of the Two Towers in the movie(s) makes them Orthanc and Barad-Dûr, naming the alliance between the two towers as the reason.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It is funny how the book is called The Two Towers, despite the fact that the reader is usually up to his ascots in Towers.

I think Orthanc and Cirith Ungol. The journeys in Book 3 lead to Orthanc. The journey in Book 4 leads to Cirith Ungol. Those are the two towers where our heroes end up. The Two Towers as a single book is centred around those progressions.

[Legolas]

It is interesting to note that Peter Jackson's interpretation of the Two Towers in the movie(s) makes them Orthanc and Barad-Dûr, naming the alliance between the two towers as the reason.

I've always thought of the two as Orthanc and Barad-Dûr.

[Lolidir]

i did a paper on Tolkien last year and during my research i remember reading something about this, although i have no idea where or exactly what it said. it was just explaining that as SpM said Tolkien didnt really have an idea for which "Two" towers it refered to. if i remember right he needed a title and that is what he came up with.

I guess its up to you which two you choose to think about. as for my opinion i have always thought of Minas Tirith and Cirith Ungol wich used to be the twin city so-to-speak of Minas Tirith.

[Neithan]

When I read the books I get the strong impression that it is Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. A large part of The Two Towers focuses mainly on Orthanc. When Orthanc is defeated their attention is turned to the bigger threat, Barad-Dûr.
There is a comparison going on between Saruman and Sauron. Saruman is trying to immitate Barad-Dûr with Orthanc, but he can not compare. Though Saruman was the main focus of most of The Two Towers and there is a definate feeling of victory when he is defeated, Tolkien soon reminds us that this was just the first round. There is still a greater enemy (second tower) to think of. Thus The Two Towers not Orthanc or Saruman's Tower.
Anyway that was my interpretation.

[The Only Real Estel]

I was watching the third disc of TTT EE today (which is of course the first disc of TTT's documentary discs) & found a spot where several people talked a bit about the Two Towers & which towers they thought they were.

One of them said that Tolkien at one point said 'quite clearly' that the two towers were Orthanc & Cirith-Ungol (as SPM said earlier), but added that it could of course refer to Minas Tirith & Barad-Dur--the towers that represent the power of the free peoples of Middle-Earth & the power that is trying to destroy the free peoples of Middle-Earth. Philipa Boyens also brought up that it coud be Minas Morgul & Minas Tirith, the towers that used to be twins; and it was also mentioned that at one point Tolkien said that it could in fact be the union of the two towers, Orthanc & Barad-Dur, that the title refers to (giving license to the way PJ decided to portray it). It's really up for grabs, because to my knowledge Tolkien himself never actually specified which two were actually the towers described in the title of the book.

[Boromir88]

Yes basically any combination could make sense. Especially Eomer's.

Where TTT: Book one, deals with Aragorn and all against Orthanc, and ends in Orthanc.

TTT: Book Two, ends with Cirith Ungol.

To even get things more complicated. I found many parallels between the two Amon's. (Amon Hen and Amon Sul). For that information check here.

Is it possible that Tolkien again is trying to draw parallels between the closings of TTT Book One and Book Two? Isengard and Cirith Ungol?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I've always understood them to be Orthanc and Cirith Ungol, just because that's where the story takes you, and that's what Tolkien said.

But I'm beginning to think it could be Minas Tirith and Barad-dur. After all, in Book II, Chapter X, the chapter that can be considered the prelude to TTT, Frodo looks from Amon Hen and eventually focuses on Minas Tirith, and the greater and stronger tower set against it. This has been erroneously identified as Minas Morgul by at least one person in this thread, but it is clearly Barad-dur. So in that chapter, the Two Towers are clearly MT and BD.

We must keep in mind that Book Three is Secondary Action and Book Four is Primary Action (the Ringbearers and the Quest proper). Thus, especially with the chapters dealing with Faramir, I can see how The Two Towers could refer to Minas Tirith and Barad-dur.

But by no means have I reached a conclusion on this. At this point, my top five picks are:
1) Isengard and Cirith Ungol
2) Minas Tirith and Barad-dur
3) Isengard and Minas Morgul
4) Isengard and Barad-dur
5) Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul

But I am willing to be convinced, if anybody has anything I haven't thought about yet.

[Finwe-89]

Wow, even years after Tolkien wrote these more then great books, there are still mysteries that no one understands or knows.

Ok, well, I think like the most that the two towers are Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. What else should it be. Ok in the movie ( yes the movie can be different) Sarumans said: ''Who now can stand against the connection of the two towers of Isengard? And Mordor?'' Ok something like that. But I might be wrong. It has been a long time I've read the books. But what else should it be? I don't think Saruman means his tower and the tower or Cirth-Ungol.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, within the context of the film, I guess that's bulletproof.

[The Only Real Estel]

Ok, well, I think like the most that the two towers are Orthanc and Barad-Dûr. What else should it be. Ok in the movie ( yes the movie can be different) Sarumans said: ''Who now can stand against the connection of the two towers of Isengard? And Mordor?'' Ok something like that. But I might be wrong. It has been a long time I've read the books. But what else should it be? I don't think Saruman means his tower and the tower or Cirth-Ungol

Well, within the context of the film, I guess that's bulletproof

Yes, it is pretty clear-cut that Saruman was talking about Orthanc & Barad-Dur in the movies. But that is the movies & PJ himself has said that they simply chose to interpret the 'Two Towers' that way because he thought that would work the best for his audience.

Of course Tolkien might have meant it that way also, but it is less likely.

[Finwe-89]

Barad-Dûr and Orthanc, because those two towers are the biggest and most important ones. Barad-Dûr = Sauron's Eye Orthanc = Saruman and his army of Uruk-hai. Cirith-Ungol doesn't have a real purpose, that's just a watchtower for Mordor so they can keep a eye for enemies like Gondor

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Orthanc is smaller and far less important than Minas Tirith. So even if it was regarding such traits, that would not make sense.

It's not set in stone at all, at least we should all infer that much.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

. . . I can conclude that:

No-one really knows. Everyone is free to have her/his own opinion.

I'm sticking to Isengard and Minas Morgul, then, which provided the backdrop of the greater struggles of Gandalf and Frodo in The Two Towers.

[Finwe-89]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Orthanc is smaller and far less important than Minas Tirith. So even if it was regarding such traits, that would not make sense.

I didn't mean the most important ones of Middle-Earth, I meant the towers of the ones who support Sauron. Cirith-Ungol doesn't have a real connection like I said. So I stay stick to Orthanc and Barad-Dûr.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Orthanc was not in support of Sauron. And Cirith Ungol had a marvellous connection, for that was where Frodo was striving towards in Book 4, and that is where he was separated from Sam, in possibly the greatest cliffhanger I have ever read.