Celebrian's Misfortunes

[Estel the Descender]

In the Lays of Beleriand it does say that raping was an Orcish SOP:

"the Orcs went forth to rape and war. . ." (from line 3516)

Admittedly, this is the old Lay of Leithian and not the recommenced version, but after reading Fordim Hedgethistle's EDIT in Post # 16 I am led to consider the possibility that Celebrian was indeed raped.

But then again, the word "rape" may just simply mean "capture", as in The Rape of The Silmarils. In that sense, Celebrian's "rape" may merely mean her capture, and the Orcs in LB might probably be just stealing. Yet the psychological wounding of Celebrian which caused her to leave Middle-earth does seem to imply that the word "rape" means more than mere capture. But, as others have already noted, if she was really raped in the sexual sense, why didn't she die outright? Unless, just as Mister Underhill noted, Tolkien changed or modified this.

But what if the "rejection of bodily life and passing on to Mandos" did not happen as an immediate occurence but as a gradual process? Then Celebrian could have survived long enough to be rescued and Elrond would have artificially preserved Celebrian's bodily life through Vilya. But the fea of Celebrian would still want to leave Ennor and so she left.

It is also possible that the reason why Elladan and Elrohir are so bitter about their mother's "torment" is because, assuming that the rape was sexual, they felt themselves also disgraced. If it was a mere capture, their bitterness may be a tad bit overreacting. Still, I may be wrong. . .

[Thinlómien]

I think "a poisonous wound" refering to rape is a bit far-fetched. Of course "Tolkien was a gentleman", as it's said here many times, but still... And that raping mentioned in Lays of Beleriand refers to stealing and raiding only, I think.
And also I can't think about orcs as very sexual creatures really...
I would clearly say Celebrian wasn't raped, if I hadn't read the post #16 by Fordim Hedgethistle. It really made me think about this.

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, I agree with the conclusion that Tolkien implied that Celebrian was raped by the Orcs. Lets see if we can come to a viable hypothesis by asking ourselves several questions:

1. How do Orcs procreate? This question is of importance because the question whether Celebrian was raped depends on the fact whether Orcs had sexual feelings. If Orcs reproduced asexually and had no sexual feelings at all, than why would they rape Celebrian? Indeed, if they were asexual then the very notion of rape must have seemed alien to them, since the act of fornication would be completely unknown to them (including the intimacy of it) and they probably would've been unable to conceive how much being raped would have damaged Celebrian, both physically and psychologically (and I'm not even talking about the Orcs lacking the *ahem* 'proper equipment'. However, it seems it's pretty clear that Orcs reproduced sexually. They clearly have families (Bolg, son of Azog) and the Silmarillion clearly states that Orcs reproduced in the manner of the Children of Iluvatar. It is therefore obvious that Orcs reproduce by having sex.

2. Did the Orcs have the opportunity to rape Celebrian and is it likely that they would have done so? It is strange that the Orcs abducted Celebrian instead of killing her outright, which would seem to be an Orcish thing to do. Celebrian would have had an escort but she's the only elf who was taken captive. This means that the Orcs probably had 'special plans' for her in store. One must wonder why the Orcs would have spared her while killing the others. It is unknown what the make-up of her escort was but one would assume that she has some ladies-in-waiting with her. These appear to have been killed, though it could be that I'm speculating too much here. Celebrian was the wife of a high-ranking elflord, so this would add to her value, but I'm not sure whether Orcs hold peopel for ransom. When they are not under the influence of a Dark Lord Orcs seem to make a living with raiding (as seen in the Hobbit where the Goblins intend to raid villages with the Wargs) and brigandeering. From what I can tell they generally tend to have a 'No prisoners, no survivors' attitude towards their victims. Tolkien has also made no mention of any ransom demands from the Orcs, so I feel that the 'ransom' scenario is unlikely.

This leaves the 'sadist' scenario. The Orcs took Celebrian to their dens to have some 'fun' with her before killing her. Their entertainment was cut short by Elladan and Elrohir's rescue attempt (I assume this was done with a strong force of Elves under their command). Tolkien states that Celebrian was tormented and that her psychological wounds were so severe she could no longer dwell in Middle-Earth. How likely is it that rape was part of that torment? Orcs are sexual creatures and pretty evil creatures at that. It seems unlikely that Orcs would have had any sort of aversion to raping captured women. We also know that Orcs love to defile and destroy beautiful things. To an Orc, what could be greater than to defile a beautiful elflady? What is the most degrading, the most defiling thing that one can do to woman? I'm afraid the answer is pretty obvious on that one. This would also explain why only Celebrian wasn't killed outright. Her high status probably enticed the Orcs to draw out her defilement as long as possible, while they quickly killed off her escort of soldiers and lower-ranking ladies.

Conclusion: While the text itself is rather vague on the subject, it would appear to me from a logical POV, taking into account the situation and especially the nature of Orcs, that it is quite likely that one of the torments Celebrian was subjected to was indeed rape.

I hope this post wasn't to vague or fuzzy, I tend to lose track when writing large posts like this.

EDIT: Edited for typos n such.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Very brilliant post Lord Melkor. My conclusions have also been swayed to your direction, but it seems that other Tolkien fans are too touchy to really delve into the inuendos of that story.

[Celebrian]

From a literary point of view, the disgrace of their mother would provide motive for Elladan amd Elrohir to join the War, in spite of their father's peaceful ways.

I tend to agree with The Saucepan Man. Is this not an example of Edwardian grace, that the "indirect", as Bethberry calls it, is used to deliberately limit the amount of evil to that which is in the mind of the reader?

The Catholic scripture says of Gorthaur's proposed evil in Ephesians 5:3, "let it not be once named among you". In my interpretation, that would be a way for Tolkien to avoid spreading even more evil into the thought-life of the reader.

[Lush]

I read this thread with an increasing feeling of sadness. It seems that a few couple of people on here immeditely associate rape with sex, and the fact that "obsession with sex seems to be a major thing with our culture." Rape is a form of violence, and, in war, a kind of weapon. It seems perfectly reasonable that in a book that mainly deals with war, rape would occur.

Rape is a part of our lives and a part of our myths, we should be able to discuss its possibilities in a literary context without claiming that other just have dirty minds, or something like that.

Why so uncomfortable with a perfectly legitimate, if disturbing subject? Is it because we sexualize rape too much, make it into something its not?

As for my personal opinion on the matter, I believe Celebrian was raped. That's how I read it the first time I picked up the book. The vague "torment" and the inability to heal psychologically in a world that would constantly remind her of what happend are consistent with trauma following sexual assault. You don't have to see it the way I do, but I hope my viewpoint doesn't make me into just another sex-obsessed modern person, daring to defile Tolkien's writing with my so-called dirty thoughts.

[Ruoutorin]

I totally disagree. It's just not "Tolkienish". They way I see Celebrain's torment is that it is similar to Frodo's torment after the destruction of the One Ring. Celebrain was wounded in body and mind and could not be content anymore in Middle Earth, just like Frodo. Tolkien is not afraid to use the word rape. He does it when describing the fate of the Silmarils.

An Elf who was raped would die:
"Among all these evils there is no record of any among the Elves that took another's spouse by force; for this was wholly against their nature, and one so forced would have rejected bodily life and passed to Mandos. Guile or trickery in this matter was scarcely possible…for the Eldar can read at once in the eyes and voice of another whether they be wed or unwed." (JRRT, Morgoth's Ring, Laws & Customs of the Eldar, footnote 5)

Tolkien says nothing of Celebrian passing to Mandos. He says her body was healed by Elrond, and it wasn't until the following year that she chose to sail across the sea.
Nothing about dying.