Gandalf's Staff

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I thought I would call attention to an interesting tidbit I ran across in the CbC forum which has relevance here:

Which brings me to Gandalf’s staff. The fact that he (far more subtly than Aragorn) insists on retaining it [during the scene before Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and Gandalf enter Theoden's hall and are asked to give up weapons] lends some credence to the theory that the Staves of the Istari were more than symbolic. I wonder whether he would have been able to achieve what he does once within the Hall without it? The suggestion is that it at least enhances his power to dispel Wormtongue’s webs of deceit.

- Wisdom courtesy of Saucy on this thread. Clarification in [brackets] is mine.

I thought it was far too relevant a fact not to be added to this discussion, but unfortunately, I can't take credit for noticing it myself.

Sophia

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I have had my say regarding staves in general, and I'm sticking to it.

And, in regards to this:

I think that Gandalf breaking his staff on the Bridge of Khazad-dum is symbolic of his sacrifice. By breaking the bridge, and the staff with it, he is dooming both himself and the Balrog to death, assuring that the rest of the Company (and thus the Ring) will make it out of Moria. I think he knows before he breaks the bridge that he and the Balrog will both die, and he accepts it so that the cause of the Free Peoples will survive. As a result, he is rewarded by being allowed to return to Middle-earth with enhanced power, to lead the cause of the Free Peoples. (Elladan and Elrohir)

But wouldn't leaving the Fellowship without his guidance constitute a shirking of his responsibility? Sure, everything turned out well during the time Aragorn led the fellowship, but what if Gandalf hadn't met them in Fangorn, because Gandalf hadn't been allowed to return?

Here's my view: Everything Gandalf did on that Bridge was just to scare ol' Roggie off. He could fight with it, yes, but he would lose time that he didn't have. But when the Balrog insisted on crossing the Bridge, he had to make sure it didn't reach the other end; ergo, the Bridge-breaking.

I think the Balrog's whip getting him was just pure coincidence. Although a good coincidence at that.

[Kuruharan]

Everything Gandalf did on that Bridge was just to scare ol' Roggie off. He could fight with it, yes, but he would lose time that he didn't have. But when the Balrog insisted on crossing the Bridge, he had to make sure it didn't reach the other end; ergo, the Bridge-breaking.

I'm not so sure that Gandalf expected to scare the Balrog off. The Balrog may have been mighty curious about this odd critter in front of him, a being which he knew to be Ainu (which the Balrog would probably have found odd enough) but not "dressed" as one. Uncertainty, but not necessarily fear, could possibly have been his dominant feeling.

I think Gandalf planned to break the bridge from the beginning. What better way to cut off pursuit?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

This Balrog ran away from Eönwë's buddies. It knows fear.

Maybe not from Gandy, but there's a chance . . .

[Kuruharan]

I did not say it did not know fear. I said it was not necessarily afraid at that moment.

Eönwë had a lot more guys with him too.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

But if Gandalf meant to break the Bridge all along, why the speech?

He was hoping to scare it off. Breaking the Bridge would take a lot from him.

[Kuruharan]

But if Gandalf meant to break the Bridge all along, why the speech?

There are a few possibilities.

Such encounters may require the participants abide by the Marquis of Oiolossë Rules, which stipulate that formal introductions must precede the commencement of hostilities. The Balrog's failure to abide by these injunctions may have been part of the reason for his defeat.

On a more serious note (if looked at from a certain perspective) Gandalf may have been stalling for time to gather energy for his blast (note all of his huffing and puffing about immediately prior to the incident).

[Essex]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I'm not so sure that Gandalf expected to scare the Balrog off. The Balrog may have been mighty curious about this odd critter in front of him, a being which he knew to be Ainu (which the Balrog would probably have found odd enough) but not "dressed" as one. Uncertainty, but not necessarily fear, could possibly have been his dominant feeling.

We also have to keep in mind that the two had already had a confrontation at the Chamber. (where they battled each other by the door using their 'Spells' and 'Words of Command'). So the Balrog should have been at least a little WARY of Gandalf at this point. I believe this is why Gandalf first tried to at least drag the Balrog to a stalemate on the bridge, instead of fighting him straight off.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

I believe this is why Gandalf first tried to at least drag the Balrog to a stalemate on the bridge, instead of fighting him straight off.

I think that Gandalf thought that there was a chance that the Balrog (or whatever it was that he perceived behind the Chamber door) may be buried/hampered by the destruction of the door etc. The Bridge, being the way out (though there must have been other exits as the Orcs get out later that night), would be a good idea if it weren't held against the Nine Walkers as a few (or just Gandalf) could hold it while the others got out into the daylight. And if Gandalf could break the Bridge irregardless of Balrog appearance, the Orc pursuit would be slowed.

The Balrog complicated matters somewhat, but the same plan could work if Gandalf broke the Bridge, because wings or no, it seemed to me that the Balrog wasn't jumping the chasm. It might have been even more important to break the Bridge at that point as I'm not sure that the Balrog would have wilted in the daylight.