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Old 02-07-2005, 02:22 PM   #1
Keeper of Dol Guldur
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Re:

Tolkien using the term "as a rule" suggests that these sorts of unwritten codes, these usual sorts of things, have over time just made themselves, based on common sense and living peacefully in the Shire.

Everything in the Shire, even the rules, evolved naturally and didn't really need to be enforced or treated overzealously.

We get a great feeling of how the Shire operates.

That contrasts very, very starkly with how the Shire operates during the "Scouring of the Shire", under Saruman's lackeys.

Hobbit's mention "it's the rules" every five minutes, as if they have to repeat these things over and over for them to make sense, as these rules came quickly and from foreign sources, and conflicted with the Hobbit's common sense.

You'll notice Tolkien didn't use 'as a rule' at all once they returned home. It could have been coincidence, but even if it is, you still get the same feeling of restrictedness and discomfort.
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:11 PM   #2
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Keeper ... while you make some interesting points, I think you have slightly misinterpreted the expression "as a rule". In current usage, the first sense of rule that comes to mind is probably to mean a "regulation" and while the words are similar they were probably not completely interchangeable since we have the expression "rules and regulations". But the sense I think Tolkien is using it is as a measuring device - equivalent to ruler. A yard-rule was a measuring stick a yard long.

I think it may be a contraction of the old phrase " as a rule of thumb" which refers to measuring things in thumb widths on the same principal as the foot and hand (which did become "fixed" units of measure). Because thumbs vary in size but not so much that they are useless as a term of reference, the expression came to mean "usually" as SpM says. It implies that the information is a general guide rather than absolutely precise.

In the phrases Elianna has quoted, I always think that Tolkien sounds a bit like a guidebook. A reason maybe he usually uses it for hobbits may be becuse they are a "strange" species. He invented them and he needs to describe them whereas most readers (at least English ones) would have an idea about what dwarves and wizards look like. Elves are more problematic because of the confusion with "itty bitty fairies"

This kind of expression has probably fallen out of use somewhat since the modern world requires us to be more specific rather in the way time was standardised with the development of railway networks.
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen
This kind of expression has probably fallen out of use somewhat since the modern world requires us to be more specific ...
I would say that, as a rule, the expression is still fairly widely used.
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:23 PM   #4
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Yes ... but among the young folks? I am all for preserving such things and having confused Americans by saying that had been in their country for a fortnight and had been to Chicago twice was sore tempted to add that I would remain for a sennight.... but that might have contravened the Geneva convention...
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen
Yes ... but among the young folks? I am all for preserving such things and having confused Americans by saying that had been in their country for a fortnight and had been to Chicago twice was sore tempted to add that I would remain for a sennight.... but that might have contravened the Geneva convention...
I'm a 17 year-old Canadian, and yet I am very familiar with "as a rule", and everyone I know would get what I was saying, were I to use it, even if they weren't familiar with the history of the phrase.

Hence, I think that "as a rule" is still an easily understood phrase, and one that is still used, not infrequently, in North America if not in Europe.

EDITED to remove some embarrassingly arrogant statements, which, fortunately for my humility, are still visible in the below quote.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil

But still, I think that "as a rule" is still an easily understood phrase, and one that is still used, no infrequently.
*Sigh*... I was merely speculating because of the evidence that it was clearly not not understood. And by American I was refering to citizens of the USA and this was based on actual incidents. I did not say that noone in America understood these words - in fact I only realised there was a problem when someone started interpreting.
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:49 PM   #7
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Re:

I'm familiar with "rule of thumb", and I see the connection. But even so, a "rule of thumb" is a LOT less rigid a measurement than using an measuring instrument, like a ruler.

Rule;

1. Governing Power, authority.
2. A prescribed direction for conduct, a regulation.
3. The body of regulations prescribed by a founder.
4. Usual, customary course of action or behavior.
5. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most cases.
6. A standard method for solving a problem.
7. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
8. A straight edged strip, wood, metal, etc, used for measuring lengths.

Anyway, I think Tolkien, who was a tremendous etymologist and a Professor of English, knew all the connotations, interpretations and meanings of the word rule, and I still think it makes sense.
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Old 09-09-2005, 07:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur
Tolkien using the term "as a rule" suggests that these sorts of unwritten codes, these usual sorts of things, have over time just made themselves, based on common sense and living peacefully in the Shire.

Everything in the Shire, even the rules, evolved naturally and didn't really need to be enforced or treated overzealously.

We get a great feeling of how the Shire operates.

That contrasts very, very starkly with how the Shire operates during the "Scouring of the Shire", under Saruman's lackeys.

Hobbit's mention "it's the rules" every five minutes, as if they have to repeat these things over and over for them to make sense, as these rules came quickly and from foreign sources, and conflicted with the Hobbit's common sense.

You'll notice Tolkien didn't use 'as a rule' at all once they returned home. It could have been coincidence, but even if it is, you still get the same feeling of restrictedness and discomfort.

Although I also read the phrase 'as a rule' to mean 'usually' as already pointed out by others, I do like the point you make. There's of course already the strong description of the differences in the Shire pre-WotR and post-WotR; this adds a bit to the picture. Pre-War, things are done 'as a rule': habitually. After the War, things have to be done because of rules, or even Rules. Pre-War, the Hobbits do as they please, post-War they are ordered around by Lotho and Sharkey c.s.
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