The two types of LotR fans - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 02-14-2005, 02:32 PM

For me I'd have to be contrary and say both.

But sometimes I think the thrill of the story wears off after many readings, as it doesn't necessarily surprise as much - though with Tolkien I always notice something new each time I read his work. If the World did not have the story then I don't think I could have enjoyed it in the first place, as its story which draws in the majority of people. Without story then it might just be a gazeteer or a travel book with some wonderful descriptions. But then because the World is so immersive, it keeps me reading even long after I have learned the plot. And sometimes, when I have 'lost the plot'.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 02-14-2005, 04:16 PM

I'll have to agree with what Lalwende said about not being introduced to the world without first knowing the story, but after that point, I'm certainly in the "World" camp.

I think it's the complexity of Tolkien's world that makes it able to stand up to so much analysis without losing the joy of the story. Some stories, even great literature, wear out under too much scrutiny (is it just me, or has Jane Eyre been analyzed to death?), Tolkien's world doesn't wear out like that, at least for me. And I suspect that this is because of the great detail he included and the vast amount of background material we have to put the story in context.

I've thought about this often, actually, and although I can't say why, I've definitely made the distinction between Story-lovers and World-lovers. It reminds me of the distinction CS Lewis made between two types of readers in his book "An Experiment in Criticism"--only I suspect that both kinds of readers of Tolkien would probably fit his "literary" category.

Sophia

Eruanna · 02-14-2005, 05:09 PM

I would have to say that in the beginning it was The Story.
When I first read The Hobbit, I was entranced. These were not the pale representations of Elves and Dwarves in the children's stories I was used to and I delighted in the difference.
On reading the trilogy a few years later, as well as appreciating the epic, I fell headlong into the world, its people and its history; and there I have remained, devouring The Silm and Unfinished Tales and of late, HoME.
I find my fascination difficult to explain sometimes. My family are used to finding me with my nose perpetually in a book and yet they can't understand why I would wish to read and re-read the same stories. I know that each time I 'visit' I will find something new.
To cut a long explanation short. I would say that for me, the world is the story.

Milord Aldagrim · 02-15-2005, 06:40 AM

I'll have to say both. When I first read the story, I loved it, and after the second time, I started noticing the subtleties of the symbolism, but I've always liked to think about what it would be like to live there. In fact, Tolkien has inspired me to try to create my own world.

Soronumë · 02-15-2005, 07:50 AM

I'd say both.... I can choose between the world and the story!!!! But there's one thing that make story good: characters.

Lolidir · 02-15-2005, 07:57 AM

the World is the Story and the Story is the World. one must first fall in love with the story to fully appreciate and love the world. I read the Hobbit and loved it as a story. then i read the Trilogy and loved it as both. Tolkien understands that you must first love the story by making it exhilerating and exciting and he understands that one can love the world by having such detailed discriptions of the world. its all great and I love it all as i am sure so many of you others do too.

Nimrodel_9 · 02-15-2005, 05:02 PM

Oh, which one am I? I would have to say both. I fell in love with the story at first and still love it. As I read the trilogy and the Silm I began to love the world. I can't decide which I love more.

Celebuial · 02-18-2005, 03:09 AM

I agree with most of you guys: you love the story first but then you love both the world and the story. There is no story without the world, but without the story the world wouldn't be 'in context'. You wouldn't really understand the way it works, how it's people live, what happened to make everything the way it is.

I think I'm both. How could you be one without the other. Ok, I can maybe see how you could love the story without loving the world( I now realise that some of my friends are story lovers), but could you truly love the world without loving the story?

02-14-2005, 02:32 PM	#1
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	For me I'd have to be contrary and say both. But sometimes I think the thrill of the story wears off after many readings, as it doesn't necessarily surprise as much - though with Tolkien I always notice something new each time I read his work. If the World did not have the story then I don't think I could have enjoyed it in the first place, as its story which draws in the majority of people. Without story then it might just be a gazeteer or a travel book with some wonderful descriptions. But then because the World is so immersive, it keeps me reading even long after I have learned the plot. And sometimes, when I have 'lost the plot'. __________________ Gordon's alive!

02-14-2005, 04:16 PM	#2
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,780	Nice thread topic I'll have to agree with what Lalwende said about not being introduced to the world without first knowing the story, but after that point, I'm certainly in the "World" camp. I think it's the complexity of Tolkien's world that makes it able to stand up to so much analysis without losing the joy of the story. Some stories, even great literature, wear out under too much scrutiny (is it just me, or has Jane Eyre been analyzed to death?), Tolkien's world doesn't wear out like that, at least for me. And I suspect that this is because of the great detail he included and the vast amount of background material we have to put the story in context. I've thought about this often, actually, and although I can't say why, I've definitely made the distinction between Story-lovers and World-lovers. It reminds me of the distinction CS Lewis made between two types of readers in his book "An Experiment in Criticism"--only I suspect that both kinds of readers of Tolkien would probably fit his "literary" category. Sophia __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

02-14-2005, 05:09 PM	#3
Eruanna Memento Mori Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Past The Point Of No Return Posts: 1,117	I would have to say that in the beginning it was The Story. When I first read The Hobbit, I was entranced. These were not the pale representations of Elves and Dwarves in the children's stories I was used to and I delighted in the difference. On reading the trilogy a few years later, as well as appreciating the epic, I fell headlong into the world, its people and its history; and there I have remained, devouring The Silm and Unfinished Tales and of late, HoME. I find my fascination difficult to explain sometimes. My family are used to finding me with my nose perpetually in a book and yet they can't understand why I would wish to read and re-read the same stories. I know that each time I 'visit' I will find something new. To cut a long explanation short. I would say that for me, the world is the story. __________________ "Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

02-15-2005, 07:50 AM	#5
Soronumë Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25	I'd say both.... I can choose between the world and the story!!!! But there's one thing that make story good: characters. __________________ And she was the child of stars, bearing their light on her forehead. Wisdom lies in her eyes and love in her heart.

02-15-2005, 07:57 AM	#6
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	the World is the Story and the Story is the World. one must first fall in love with the story to fully appreciate and love the world. I read the Hobbit and loved it as a story. then i read the Trilogy and loved it as both. Tolkien understands that you must first love the story by making it exhilerating and exciting and he understands that one can love the world by having such detailed discriptions of the world. its all great and I love it all as i am sure so many of you others do too. __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to" Last edited by Lolidir; 02-15-2005 at 08:01 AM.

02-15-2005, 06:40 AM	#4
Milord Aldagrim Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Merrimac, MA Posts: 14	I'll have to say both. When I first read the story, I loved it, and after the second time, I started noticing the subtleties of the symbolism, but I've always liked to think about what it would be like to live there. In fact, Tolkien has inspired me to try to create my own world.

02-15-2005, 05:02 PM	#7
Nimrodel_9 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 734	Oh, which one am I? I would have to say both. I fell in love with the story at first and still love it. As I read the trilogy and the Silm I began to love the world. I can't decide which I love more. __________________ .:A friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart:.

02-18-2005, 03:09 AM	#8
Celebuial Wight Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cardiff during term time/Leicester in the holl's Posts: 129	I agree with most of you guys: you love the story first but then you love both the world and the story. There is no story without the world, but without the story the world wouldn't be 'in context'. You wouldn't really understand the way it works, how it's people live, what happened to make everything the way it is. I think I'm both. How could you be one without the other. Ok, I can maybe see how you could love the story without loving the world( I now realise that some of my friends are story lovers), but could you truly love the world without loving the story? __________________ Ú cilith ‘war. Ú men ‘war. Boe min mebi. Boe min bango.