The importance of intelligent debate - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

radagastly · 02-15-2005, 01:26 PM

Joseph Campbell once said:

Quote:

I don't believe in persuasion, I believe in being "caught!"

The fact is, it's difficult, maybe impossible, to persuade anyone to your side of the fence if they have strong feelings for their own side. On the other hand, if you post your own opinions on Tolkiens work or on P.J.'s work and if you show your own enthusiasm for those opinions by backing them up with facts, quotes etc., you can give yourself a real sense of superiority by ignoring the purely emotional responses to it, remaining above it, and moving on. It's unlikely you will sway anyone's opinion by sinking to their level and insulting them or their thoughts. You may need to respond to something someone said, in order to clarify things or provide more detail as to why you feel the way you do, and that's actually a good idea, but if you find yourself clicking the "Post a reply" button out of an emotional response to something you consider stupid or insulting, it's probably time to move on to another thread, at least for a while. Come back when you've cooled down, or don't come back at all.

And remember, thoughtful enthusiasm is your best defense against being insulted or feeling insulted in the first place.

That's my opinion. Any takers?

HerenIstarion · 02-16-2005, 12:55 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure I understand Heren. I find the Dumbing it Down thread to be of good quality.

I upped this one not because of DID's poor quality, but, quite the opposite - as a support for its good one. Reasoning - let people see we are not only able of having good debate, but also we care to have good debate, and it is not accidental that we indeed are having such

Besides, I simply like digging around and unearthing Sir Squatter of Amon Rûdh's threads. They tend to sprout new tentacles once brought back to the surface

Third reason - when I have limited time for posting myself, I entertain said self with archeology.

cheers

alatar · 02-18-2005, 11:58 AM

Wow! Another great thread that should be required reading for Newbies, especially the post by Estelyn Telcontar. As with some of the other threads regarding 'expected vs observed' behavior, I see myself pre-humously (the opposite of post-humously) 'mentioned' in the various posts, having violated various rules, bylaws and etiquette - I'm actually fearful of posting again...

...
...

Okay, fear's gone.

At times it's hard to remove the passion from the writing, as it - the emotion - may be what is driving the responses in the first place, or at least it is for me. That emotion may be anger, pride, joy, awe, glee, etc. As stated many times before, more 'hot' emotions are linked to the movie threads as the movies may have touched people differently, being more emotive (visual, aural) than the books - especially if you've never read the latter.

For example, the movie soundtracks struck chords inside me (i.e. the 'Shire theme' makes me think of my kids) and so those emotions and others evoked by PJ are running subconsciously inside my head as I post to the movies threads. Also, being a Gandalf fan for 25+ years, then seeing a nearly 'spot on' walking/talking depiction of him, and finally accepting/liking this version, I got really torqued off when he was destaffed, and so I posted pretty hotly regarding the same. The readers of those posts may have wondered what all of the bluster was about, having posted very acceptable and logical arguments, not understanding why I couldn't accept those. They couldn't see all of the emotional baggage behind each keystroke, and this may have limited the amount of actual intelligent debate I was capable of delivering.

Having worked through this, I understand that others may still be so afflicted.

Another thing that squashes intelligent debate is boredom. Ever be sitting at your computer with nothing better to do, looking for a thread to jump in on? Whereas emotions may hinder intelligent debate, apathy regarding a thread topic may not be a plus either.

My biggest sin (I guess that I'm confessing here) is having too much fun. Yes, there are more serious and in depth threads, but not all are, and so not all posts are written with the same amount of forethought, care or with the same tone. Sometimes I just can't help but post to 'poke fun' at a debate (not poster), especially when I'm not committed to either 'camp' nor feel that the eternal fate of the spirit of Tolkien rests on my words. At times ripostes in the same vane have brightened my day, and made me realize that it's just not that life-threatening whether Elves have pointed ears or not. Crafting/reading a witty (at least to me) reply makes the topic that much more interesting.

Other posts leave me in awe, being both well-written and well thought out. I typically just read those threads as I think that I can't offer much more than assent or dissent - then I run back to the 'newbie' threads with my tail between my legs.

Lastly, there are daily reminders that life goes on, sometimes poorly, sometimes not at all. This forum is a place for me to forget about that all for a while.

Anyway, "me too."

02-18-2005, 11:58 AM	#3
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Wow! Another great thread that should be required reading for Newbies, especially the post by Estelyn Telcontar. As with some of the other threads regarding 'expected vs observed' behavior, I see myself pre-humously (the opposite of post-humously) 'mentioned' in the various posts, having violated various rules, bylaws and etiquette - I'm actually fearful of posting again... ... ... Okay, fear's gone. At times it's hard to remove the passion from the writing, as it - the emotion - may be what is driving the responses in the first place, or at least it is for me. That emotion may be anger, pride, joy, awe, glee, etc. As stated many times before, more 'hot' emotions are linked to the movie threads as the movies may have touched people differently, being more emotive (visual, aural) than the books - especially if you've never read the latter. For example, the movie soundtracks struck chords inside me (i.e. the 'Shire theme' makes me think of my kids) and so those emotions and others evoked by PJ are running subconsciously inside my head as I post to the movies threads. Also, being a Gandalf fan for 25+ years, then seeing a nearly 'spot on' walking/talking depiction of him, and finally accepting/liking this version, I got really torqued off when he was destaffed, and so I posted pretty hotly regarding the same. The readers of those posts may have wondered what all of the bluster was about, having posted very acceptable and logical arguments, not understanding why I couldn't accept those. They couldn't see all of the emotional baggage behind each keystroke, and this may have limited the amount of actual intelligent debate I was capable of delivering. Having worked through this, I understand that others may still be so afflicted. Another thing that squashes intelligent debate is boredom. Ever be sitting at your computer with nothing better to do, looking for a thread to jump in on? Whereas emotions may hinder intelligent debate, apathy regarding a thread topic may not be a plus either. My biggest sin (I guess that I'm confessing here) is having too much fun. Yes, there are more serious and in depth threads, but not all are, and so not all posts are written with the same amount of forethought, care or with the same tone. Sometimes I just can't help but post to 'poke fun' at a debate (not poster), especially when I'm not committed to either 'camp' nor feel that the eternal fate of the spirit of Tolkien rests on my words. At times ripostes in the same vane have brightened my day, and made me realize that it's just not that life-threatening whether Elves have pointed ears or not. Crafting/reading a witty (at least to me) reply makes the topic that much more interesting. Other posts leave me in awe, being both well-written and well thought out. I typically just read those threads as I think that I can't offer much more than assent or dissent - then I run back to the 'newbie' threads with my tail between my legs. Lastly, there are daily reminders that life goes on, sometimes poorly, sometimes not at all. This forum is a place for me to forget about that all for a while. Anyway, "me too."