Dear G; Tried to find you... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-19-2005, 08:21 PM

From the History of Galadriel and Celeborn in Unfinished Tales:

Quote:

When Sauron learned of the repentance and revolt of Celebrimbor his disguise fell and his wrath was revealed; and gathering a great force he moved over Calenardhon (Rohan) to the invasion of Eriador in the year 1695. When news of this reached Gil-Galad he sent out a force under Elrond Half-elven; but Elrond had far to go, and Sauron turned north and made at once for Eregion. The scouts and vanguard of Sauron's host were already approaching when Celeborn made a sortie and drove them back; but though he was able to join his force to that of Elrond they could not return to Eregion, for Sauron's host was far greater than theirs, great enough both to hold them off and closely to invest Eregion.

Then:

Quote:

In black anger he turned back to battle; and bearing as a banner Celebrimbor's body hung on a pole, shot through with Orc-arrows, he turned upon the forces of Elrond. Elrond had gathered such few of the Elves of Eregion as had escaped, but he had no force to withstand the onset.

Later:

Quote:

But his force was weakened by the necessity of leaving a strong detachment to contain Elrond and prevent him coming down on his rear.

It was during this campaign that Elrond, while surrounded by Sauron’s forces, established Rivendell as a refuge for the survivors of Sauron’s occupation of Eregion.

So Elrond was clearly a military commander during the Second Age. At some point thereafter, he renounced combat to concentrate on healing. The first reference to his healing powers that I am aware of was when he healed his wife following her abduction by Orcs (in TA 2509). That was well after the Last Alliance, so it is quite possible that Elrond took and active part in the campaign as a combatant. His designation as Gil-Galad’s herald would not be incompatible with this, in my view.

Formendacil · 02-19-2005, 08:49 PM

And what about Elrond in the First Age?

For the first 50-100 years of his life, Elrond lived in a society that was VERY dangerous for Eldar or Edain. And he wasn't even on the relatively safe Balar with Gil-galad and Cirdan, but rather he was with the mainland-bound Sons of Feanor.

Also, note that he and Elros were raised by Maglor. Maglor might have been the most pacifist of the Sons of Feanor, but do you honestly think that a three-times Kinslayer would allow his adopted sons to sit by idly while they fought for their very lives?

Also, in earlier versions, the son(s) of Earendil took part in the War of Wrath. As far as I know, this remained the case in the later conceptions.

Elrond might have been a pacifist come the War of the Last Alliance, although I would wait until after if I were to date his retirement, but it is plain that in earlier times he must have had to take up the sword.

Mithalwen · 02-20-2005, 11:31 AM

I am aware of the role of Quakers, and indeed that even today musicians are used as stretcher bearers, but I don't think there is evidence for burrahobbit to claim his opinion as incontravertible fact. It was not customary for elf women to fight either but they did when they had to. And regardless of being a Maiar, if Eonwe can be both herald and warrior so can Elrond.

Furthermore the sons of Elrond were both mighty warriors and skilled healers as is shown in LOTR when they aid Aragorn after the battle of the Pelennor FIelds - and they are more Elvish than their father.

Voralphion · 02-27-2005, 07:39 PM

I believe that one of the important tasks of a banner bearer was to protect the banner. If the banner was captured, it was considered a disgrace. Therefore Elrond as the banner bearer would have to have fought at the Last Alliance, both to protect the banner, and because he would have been a rather conspicuous target carrying the banner of the elven king.

Lobelia · 02-27-2005, 09:04 PM

While we're discussing the role of Elrond - and I agree that the banner-bearer/messenger,etc. would have had to be able to fight, even though he wasn't commanding fighters - in the Council of Elrond chapter, he also says that he tried to talk Isildur into throwing the Ring away (they showed this as a flashback in the film, rather than having him tell the Council, but he did say it). Don't tell me he was busy bandaging Isildur at the time. :-)

02-19-2005, 08:49 PM	#2
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	And what about Elrond in the First Age? For the first 50-100 years of his life, Elrond lived in a society that was VERY dangerous for Eldar or Edain. And he wasn't even on the relatively safe Balar with Gil-galad and Cirdan, but rather he was with the mainland-bound Sons of Feanor. Also, note that he and Elros were raised by Maglor. Maglor might have been the most pacifist of the Sons of Feanor, but do you honestly think that a three-times Kinslayer would allow his adopted sons to sit by idly while they fought for their very lives? Also, in earlier versions, the son(s) of Earendil took part in the War of Wrath. As far as I know, this remained the case in the later conceptions. Elrond might have been a pacifist come the War of the Last Alliance, although I would wait until after if I were to date his retirement, but it is plain that in earlier times he must have had to take up the sword. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

02-20-2005, 11:31 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I am aware of the role of Quakers, and indeed that even today musicians are used as stretcher bearers, but I don't think there is evidence for burrahobbit to claim his opinion as incontravertible fact. It was not customary for elf women to fight either but they did when they had to. And regardless of being a Maiar, if Eonwe can be both herald and warrior so can Elrond. Furthermore the sons of Elrond were both mighty warriors and skilled healers as is shown in LOTR when they aid Aragorn after the battle of the Pelennor FIelds - and they are more Elvish than their father. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-27-2005, 07:39 PM	#4
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	I believe that one of the important tasks of a banner bearer was to protect the banner. If the banner was captured, it was considered a disgrace. Therefore Elrond as the banner bearer would have to have fought at the Last Alliance, both to protect the banner, and because he would have been a rather conspicuous target carrying the banner of the elven king. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

02-27-2005, 09:04 PM	#5
Lobelia Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 150	While we're discussing the role of Elrond - and I agree that the banner-bearer/messenger,etc. would have had to be able to fight, even though he wasn't commanding fighters - in the Council of Elrond chapter, he also says that he tried to talk Isildur into throwing the Ring away (they showed this as a flashback in the film, rather than having him tell the Council, but he did say it). Don't tell me he was busy bandaging Isildur at the time. :-)