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Old 02-21-2005, 10:06 PM   #1
Fell Beast
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Amarie of the Vanyar said: Even Miriel's hroa didn't rot when her fëa went to Mandos.

Actually, it did. Tolkien mentioned somewhere that Elves' bodies decompose quickly when they die. Miriel's body was preserved at first, but when Finwe remarried, it was allowed to decompose so that she could never return to it.

Last edited by Fell Beast; 02-22-2005 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 02-22-2005, 03:33 AM   #2
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Welcome to 'Downs Fell Beast! Enjoy being dead

As other people have said, Feanor was kind of childishly eager to prove his merit and status. Maybe that was due to the strong spirit he had or maybe he wanted to show Finwe and Indis that only he was really something.

Miriel had been a very skilled weaver. That might have been the inspiration for Feanor to pursue fame and pleasure from artistry (the writing system he improved and jewellery). Also, Feanor's marriage with a great blacksmith's daughter probably enhanced his interest in jewels.

The main reason for making the silmarils was risen by a question: how to make the light of the trees and the glory of Aman to last forever (The Silmarillion, Ch. 7). To me it seems that Feanor knew that Melkor's kindness was just an act and he had a premonition that something evil was about to happen.

My first thoughts were that Feanor wanted to play a god, a vala, and thus create something that everyone would desire and be amazed at. But the fact that Feanor loathed Melkor had a certain impact, I think. It was only afterwards when he had made the silmarils, that their flawlessness and beauty took over him and he became a bit too fond of them and thus grasping. They were kind of like the One Ring. Feanor didn't want other people to touch the silmarils and was afraid that they would be stolen.

(Scrolls to the beginning to recall what the original question even was...) I agree with Morgul Queen and Sophia about many things but I'd like to think that the idea for the silmarils wasn't completely based on selfish thoughts. I sympathize with Feanor since he must have been very frustrated and unhappy with his life. Though he was ambitious and hot-tempered, he just wanted to make something beautiful endure.
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Old 02-22-2005, 06:11 PM   #3
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Silmaril Some thoughts on Fëanor

Thankee for the welcome, dancing spawn!

In my opinion, Fëanor was restless and unhappy for a lot of his life. Perhaps he was always creating more dazzling and difficult-to-make treasures partly because he needed something to keep his mind occupied. He'd already explored every corner of Aman, improved their written language, learned everything he could from other craftspeople; what else was there for him to do?

I get the feeling that even before the trouble with Melkor started, he wanted to get to Arda somehow, see new things, new people, new languages, new lore, new dangers, etc. He really did feel restricted by the Valar.

The fact that he distrusted Melkor when everyone else still thought he was a great guy indicates that he had some suspicion that M was up to no good. And if one Vala could be an enemy, so could any or all of them.

*Ahem* Will try to stop rambling now.

Fëanor probably made the Silmarils for a variety of reasons:

1) appreciation for beauty and desire to make beautiful things
2) intellectual challenge (to keep his mind off problems with Valar/family? or just because he liked challenges?)
3) desire to make something that would never die or decay (possibly because of his mother's death)
4) sensing a threat in Melkor, sought to preserve the Trees' light because he suspected something bad was coming?

Of course, I could be wrong. Who really knows what went on in that mind of his?

Last edited by Fell Beast; 02-22-2005 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:16 PM   #4
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First, the Silmarils had to be indestructible as a plot devise. If they were perishable, then Feanor could have destroyed them to spite everyone. Melkor could have done the same instead of bearing them in his Iron Crown. Or, when the War of Wrath was starting to go poorly for him, he could have then just smashed them. Melkor killed the trees; why not the Silmarils too?

And as stated, Feanor wasn't just thinking about Melkor, though I'm sure that stories regarding the same made him want to create something that even Melkor could not taint (as he had all of the rest of the works in Arda). Why not make something that might even confound Manwe or Aule? "Naa naa naa, I'm better than the Valar...Melkor defiled your works but not mine!" Iluvatar made certain things imperishable, and so why not Feanor? He was a little proud ya know...

And they had to resistant to Red Maw digestive systems.

And don't the jewels play some part regarding the end of the world, meaning that they would need to be (to borrow a word) null-entropic?
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Old 02-25-2005, 10:28 AM   #5
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Alatar wrote:
Quote:
First, the Silmarils had to be indestructible as a plot devise. If they were perishable, then Feanor could have destroyed them to spite everyone.
Why on earth would he do that? Feanor loved the Silmarils more than anything else (the only possible exception I can think of being his father).

Actually, the Silmarils were destructible. After the darkening of Valinor the Valar asked that Feanor break the Silmarils and use the light trapped within to rekindle the Trees. And he refused. The point was moot because, unbeknownst to them at the time, Melkor had just attacked Formenos. But it remains true that even at the urging of the Valar, even to revive the Two Trees and reverse the Darkening, Feanor would not destroy the Silmarils.

The jewels came close to destruction again when Melkor quarreled with Ungoliant. Ungoliant desired to consume them but Melkor withheld them; this led to the Thieves' Quarrel. The arrival of the Balrogs prevented Ungoliant from consuming them, but the text (LQ2 I believe) clearly indicates that had Ungoliant consumed them they would have perished.

Finally, one may note that the Second Prophecy of Mandos foretells that at the end of the world the Silmarils will in fact be broken and their light will be used to revive the Trees.

So they were not indestructible. They were certainly difficult to damage or destroy, but not impossible.
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Old 02-25-2005, 11:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Aiwendil
Why on earth would he do that? Feanor loved the Silmarils more than anything else (the only possible exception I can think of being his father).
Just thought that Feanor, butcherer of Elves and burner of ships, would stop at nothing to possess/retain control of the Jewels. Assume that the Valar were going to take them by force, then I think that Feanor would have destroyed them.


Quote:
Actually, the Silmarils were destructible. After the darkening of Valinor the Valar asked that Feanor break the Silmarils and use the light trapped within to rekindle the Trees. And he refused. The point was moot because, unbeknownst to them at the time, Melkor had just attacked Formenos. But it remains true that even at the urging of the Valar, even to revive the Two Trees and reverse the Darkening, Feanor would not destroy the Silmarils.
Was it that they could be destroyed, or unlocked/unmade? Maybe it's just semantics, but I can't see 'destroying' the Jewels to get the light out - though removing the light from the same would in effect 'destroy' them. Does that make sense?


Quote:
The jewels came close to destruction again when Melkor quarreled with Ungoliant. Ungoliant desired to consume them but Melkor withheld them; this led to the Thieves' Quarrel. The arrival of the Balrogs prevented Ungoliant from consuming them, but the text (LQ2 I believe) clearly indicates that had Ungoliant consumed them they would have perished.
Not to quibble ( ), but IMO being consumed was not the same as destruction. Ungoliant would not have cracked them open with her teeth, but they would have been lost in the black hole of her appetite.


Quote:
Finally, one may note that the Second Prophecy of Mandos foretells that at the end of the world the Silmarils will in fact be broken and their light will be used to revive the Trees.

So they were not indestructible. They were certainly difficult to damage or destroy, but not impossible.
Overall, I will have to agree with you in face of the evidence. Silmarils can be destroyed, but not very easily.
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