Character(s) that you dont like... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Formendacil · 03-05-2005, 11:33 AM

Gollum.

I am very Sam-like in this matter. I can tolerate him, and I appreciate the part he has to play, but for me he is a nasty, slimy, treacherous creature.

Fascinating from a reader's point of view, but I never could sympathize fully with Frodo for taking him in.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 03-05-2005, 11:58 AM

What a shame to criticise Butterbur so. There was no malevolent desire to endanger Frodo; he was merely an extremely busy and worried man who did not realise the gravity of the situation.

I suppose someone will nominate Treebeard sooner or later....

Boromir88 · 03-05-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

I suppose someone will nominate Treebeard sooner or later

and Bombadil

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 03-05-2005, 12:17 PM

Argh! That would be decidedly uncool.

It always baffles me why Tolkien fans dislike those two.

Celebuial · 03-07-2005, 07:07 AM

How can Tolkien fans dislike Treebeard snd Bombadil??? Its a mystery to me!

I would have to say that I don't like Ioreth very much. As far as I was concerned she just kept interupting what was going on. I found it highly annoying!

Eruanna · 03-07-2005, 01:03 PM

I have to put my hand up and admit that I have very mixed feelings about Tom Bombadil, I'm afraid. I can't say that I dislike him (and Goldberry). I know that he's an enigma, one of a kind and all that, but he just doesn't seem to fit!
I think it's the tone of the story at that point. The Bombadil interlude is slightly childish, bearing in mind how serious and complex the story becomes later on and it tends to annoy me a little.

mark12_30 · 03-07-2005, 01:14 PM

Shagrat, Radbug, Grishnakh, Witch-King... Ugluk, MOS, Wormtongue... Bill Ferny. Saruman. And, oh, yeah... that other bad guy-- er, wossname? Sauron?

Lyta_Underhill · 03-07-2005, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Gollum.

I am very Sam-like in this matter. I can tolerate him, and I appreciate the part he has to play, but for me he is a nasty, slimy, treacherous creature.

Fascinating from a reader's point of view, but I never could sympathize fully with Frodo for taking him in.

Certainly, to like Gollum on his own merits is counter-intuitive, but I rather think it is a stroke of genius that Frodo took him in as he did, even if one discounts his instinct towards pity for the poor creature. Gollum is the one being at hand who has been to Mordor and knows ways into it. I know that Frodo doesn't realize just how much he knows about the Black Land, but he does know that this knowledge is far greater than his own. I think, however, that if Frodo had not sympathized with and pitied Gollum, his faith would have been gone much earlier, and he might not have seen humanity as worth saving. The Ring would have him then. In a way, Gollum personifies the corruption wrought by Sauron on the whole of Middle Earth, and at the same time personifies the glimmer of hope for its redemption. Smeagol/Gollum is the balance of good and evil of the greater world, and Frodo has that in his hands, literally. If he hadn't sympathized with Gollum, Frodo would certainly have been lost. (This concept is difficult to separate from a selfish reading of Frodo's motives, i.e., he sees his own reflection in Gollum and so treats him civilly.) I don't think this is the case, and his sympathy goes deeper than a simple personal reflection. Sam cannot see this necessity until he has borne the Ring as well, and somehow I think it is impossible to purify oneself without this trait.

But enough of my well-known penchant for Frodophilicity...

Who don't I like? Well, like others here, Denethor pops to mind, but mainly because of his intellectual vanity, i.e., his idea that he knows better than Gandalf, better than Faramir, is stronger than the Eye in the Palantir, etc. etc. His lore is deep, and he is exposed to and absorbs the same knowledge as Faramir does, and yet his spirit is corrupted so that he cannot do good with that knowledge in the end. He puts his own interests above those of his realm, not a good trait in a Steward. (This is not to say he does nothing--he defends Minas Tirith admirably, but his unbalanced mental state leaves the command of his forces in doubt at a crucial point and Gandalf is forced to take over the conducting of the city's defense. Also, there are hints of his nature upon the recollections of Aragorn as Thorongil long ago in the service of Ecthelion II in Minas Tirith--Denethor resented him back then, too! That man held a lot of grudges, didn't he?)

Others I dislike are not hard to guess: Ted Sandyman, petty evil incarnate; I most certainly didn't like the silly songs Bombadil sang most of the time, and could see myself turning as red as Frodo when he looked upon Goldberry if I tried to sing them...Tom Bombadil--the spirit of the Silly Old Forest! I don't mind his silliness or Bombadil himself, really--I just don't care for his tunes! Aragorn used to irritate me long ago, with his "Lo!'s and thou's" and high flown speech, as if he were a charging battery that got more high and mighty the closer he came to Minas Tirith...strangely enough, I don't mind that so much now! Legolas dancing on top of the snow near the Redhorn Pass made me want to slap him sometimes, although the description of his 'shoes' always makes me think of a Keebler Elf, rather than Orlando Bloom!

Well, that's all for now! Happy character-beefing!

Cheers!
Lyta

yavanna II · 04-18-2005, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Gollum.

I am very Sam-like in this matter. I can tolerate him, and I appreciate the part he has to play, but for me he is a nasty, slimy, treacherous creature.

Fascinating from a reader's point of view, but I never could sympathize fully with Frodo for taking him in.

Uhm.... I don't know why, but I really really really love Gollum... esp the 2 personalities' debate... I mean, in my world, I do not usually encounter organismswho speaks in that Gollum fashion....

yavanna II · 04-18-2005, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Gollum.

I am very Sam-like in this matter. I can tolerate him, and I appreciate the part he has to play, but for me he is a nasty, slimy, treacherous creature.

Fascinating from a reader's point of view, but I never could sympathize fully with Frodo for taking him in.

\

Uhm, I hate to contradict Formendacil, esp that I love the signature.... but I think Gollum is a masterpiece villain of old JRRT... I mean, one does not usually encounter organisms talking in a Gollum-like style... and that style has always, uhm, what's the term, magulo pero cute...

And the character(s) I don't like? Well, it's kinda tough...

Tom Bombadil, maybe, that stupid guy who's a cross between a hobbit and a man, wearing those stupid outfits... Well, the thing that annoys me 'bout him is his manner of dressing, not his language or anything....

Pasensya na, ako'y nauubusan na ng Ingles.... mag-aaral muna ako nito!!!!!!!!!

03-05-2005, 11:33 AM	#1
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	Gollum. I am very Sam-like in this matter. I can tolerate him, and I appreciate the part he has to play, but for me he is a nasty, slimy, treacherous creature. Fascinating from a reader's point of view, but I never could sympathize fully with Frodo for taking him in. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

03-05-2005, 11:58 AM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	What a shame to criticise Butterbur so. There was no malevolent desire to endanger Frodo; he was merely an extremely busy and worried man who did not realise the gravity of the situation. I suppose someone will nominate Treebeard sooner or later.... __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

03-05-2005, 12:17 PM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Argh! That would be decidedly uncool. It always baffles me why Tolkien fans dislike those two. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

03-07-2005, 07:07 AM	#5
Celebuial Wight Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cardiff during term time/Leicester in the holl's Posts: 129	How can Tolkien fans dislike Treebeard snd Bombadil??? Its a mystery to me! I would have to say that I don't like Ioreth very much. As far as I was concerned she just kept interupting what was going on. I found it highly annoying! __________________ Ú cilith ‘war. Ú men ‘war. Boe min mebi. Boe min bango.

03-07-2005, 01:03 PM	#6
Eruanna Memento Mori Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Past The Point Of No Return Posts: 1,117	I have to put my hand up and admit that I have very mixed feelings about Tom Bombadil, I'm afraid. I can't say that I dislike him (and Goldberry). I know that he's an enigma, one of a kind and all that, but he just doesn't seem to fit! I think it's the tone of the story at that point. The Bombadil interlude is slightly childish, bearing in mind how serious and complex the story becomes later on and it tends to annoy me a little. __________________ "Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

03-07-2005, 01:14 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Shagrat, Radbug, Grishnakh, Witch-King... Ugluk, MOS, Wormtongue... Bill Ferny. Saruman. And, oh, yeah... that other bad guy-- er, wossname? Sauron? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.