Tolkien Monster Manual - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-07-2005, 02:12 AM

An interesting and ambitious list, Makar! I do have one objection - LotR counts the Ents as one of the Free Peoples, so I would not include them in a bestiary.

Bêthberry · 03-07-2005, 12:16 PM

Well, what exactly would you like us to do, Makar? Add references to the books? Add other creatures?

Estelyn, Makar has also included the Easterlings, certainly the race of men. I wonder if this would lead into a discussion of what constitutes a beast or sentient life in Middle-earth. But I am not sure what is meant by this phrase:

Quote:

There are no book and chapter references yet and the races and subraces of men, vala, and elves are really included.

They aren't listed, so are you trying to include all forms of animate life, Makar? Given that orcs--or some of them--are twisted elves, it becomes difficult to define them as beasts without including unfallen elves also, doesn't it?

Makar · 03-07-2005, 01:58 PM

I guess it could include whatever you want it to. Eventually it might include all of the races and subraces. I was merely noting the lack of text citations, in case somebody asked, "Hey, where'd that monster come from." Please keep in mind that this list very rough and was made for a D&D campaign. Therefore it does not include that races that were available to PCs. However, though some Easterlings, kinsmen of Bor, were available as PC races, others -folk of Ulfang and Brodda- were NPC races. I am working on this list. I don't really want anybody to do anything for me, except maybe point out where I'm wrong. I just put up this old list to kind of get some discussion going. Thanks.

Elrian · 03-07-2005, 02:52 PM

There is already a book out on this, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...649421-5101404
also overstock.com has it a few dollars cheaper.

Makar · 03-07-2005, 02:59 PM

I've seen that book and it includes a lot of stuff, but it doesn't include everything. If you feel that I have let any kind of creatures slip through the cracks, please tell me. I suppose the major purpose was to come up with a complete list of creatures (including speaking peoples) of anything mentioned by Tolkien in any works relating to ME.

Elrian · 03-07-2005, 03:08 PM

Considering it was in print before the HoME series, there must be quite a few it did miss.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-07-2005, 03:16 PM

Since you are planning to include the sentient races, I guess my problem boils down to the terminology - I would not call a list that includes Men, Elves, etc. a "Bestiary", since that word suggests "beasts" and is used for animals.

03-07-2005, 02:12 AM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	An interesting and ambitious list, Makar! I do have one objection - LotR counts the Ents as one of the Free Peoples, so I would not include them in a bestiary. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-07-2005, 02:52 PM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	There is already a book out on this, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...649421-5101404 also overstock.com has it a few dollars cheaper. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

03-07-2005, 03:08 PM	#6
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Considering it was in print before the HoME series, there must be quite a few it did miss. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

03-07-2005, 03:16 PM	#7
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Since you are planning to include the sentient races, I guess my problem boils down to the terminology - I would not call a list that includes Men, Elves, etc. a "Bestiary", since that word suggests "beasts" and is used for animals. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-07-2005, 01:58 PM	#3
Makar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oklahom Posts: 44	I guess it could include whatever you want it to. Eventually it might include all of the races and subraces. I was merely noting the lack of text citations, in case somebody asked, "Hey, where'd that monster come from." Please keep in mind that this list very rough and was made for a D&D campaign. Therefore it does not include that races that were available to PCs. However, though some Easterlings, kinsmen of Bor, were available as PC races, others -folk of Ulfang and Brodda- were NPC races. I am working on this list. I don't really want anybody to do anything for me, except maybe point out where I'm wrong. I just put up this old list to kind of get some discussion going. Thanks.

03-07-2005, 02:59 PM	#5
Makar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Oklahom Posts: 44	I've seen that book and it includes a lot of stuff, but it doesn't include everything. If you feel that I have let any kind of creatures slip through the cracks, please tell me. I suppose the major purpose was to come up with a complete list of creatures (including speaking peoples) of anything mentioned by Tolkien in any works relating to ME.