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#1 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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I can now see your point. A fair opinion, but here's my 2 cents:
Gandalf (in both film and book) knows that people will die because of his actions in leaving the witch king and going to try and save Faramir. Quote:
I think Tolkien has this happen for a number of reasons, one of them being the feeling it brings up (in me anyway) of why does he do this? why does he try to save one (or two) lives and sacrifice many more? Because this is what happens sometimes in the real world. many people may be sacrificed to save a more 'greater' or 'higher ' person. Most people on this site come from the usa maybe? therefore if a person in a security detail in the white house had to save either the President or a group of people, I put it to you that he would save the President. Faramir was technically the preson in charge of Minas Tirith and Gondor at this point because of Denethor's descent into Madness, so he was fairly high up. PS The enemy had entered the City as soon as the WK rode through the gates ![]() |
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#2 | |||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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The book Gandalf sought bigger game. Quote:
So in the process of rescuing Faramir (one in the plus column), Gandalf abandons those in the lower levels to the orcs/trolls (a few in the minus). Then, for some reason PJ has Gandalf spur Shadowfax at Denethor, adding yet another to the minus list - and wouldn't that be fun to explain to Faramir? And would not Gandalf sacrifice himself first, as he did on the bridge, to slow the advance? It's just the more I thought about it the more it seemed that Gandalf was 'running,' and you know how kindly I take to PJ disparaging my man Gandalf... Quote:
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#3 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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Alatar, you need to go out and get another set of the books!
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#4 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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I was reading Letter #210 in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, which is a lengthy (and highly critical) commentary dating from June 1958 on the script for a proposed film of LotR (which, in the event, went unmade). It is a highly entertaining read and gives a great insight into Tolkien's approach to the filmic treatment of his work (which is refreshingly realistic). Although the script in question appears to be far more at odds with the book than Jackson and co's script, it is nevertheless clear from this letter that there are a great many aspects of Jackson's films that he would have disliked.
But the following passage seems particulary relevant to this thread, especially with regard to the criticisms made of the apparent discrepancy between the film portrayal of the Witch-king's powers at Weathertop and his powers at the Pelennor. The passage follows on from Tolkien's expressed annoyance at the script for having Aragorn lead the Hobbits away from Bree at night, which he sees as entirely the opposite of what Aragorn would do in the circumstances: Quote:
So, in both the book and the films, the Witch-king of Weathertop is a different proposition from the Witch-king at the Pelennor. Whether this will make his breaking of Gandalf's staff in the film any more credible to Tolkien fans is unlikely, but it addresses the apparent inconsistency between the portrayal of the W-K's powers in these two parts of the film trilogy.
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#5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Muddy-earth
Posts: 1,297
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The Saucepanman raises a good point, however Tolkien still does not say who is the mightier, and remember that Gandalf himself had also been enhanced. The two opponents would have been quite different from those that might have met on Weathertop.
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#6 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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![]() In short, all of the characters (Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo, Sam, WK, armies, etc) powered up as the story proceeded, but PJ was inconsistent/inconsiderate in regards to Gandalf. |
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#7 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Tricky subject this though, as the extent of Gandalf the White's powers is not entirely clear from the book, by virtue of the restriction placed upon him as one of the Istari. He only uses his powers "offensively" in times of utmost need. While his true nature and limitations as one of the Istari are not addressed in the films, this will have had an effect on his film portrayal. And I agree with Essex that the book leaves open the question of who would have prevailed in a confrontation between him and the Witch-king at the time of the attack on Minas Tirith.
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#8 | ||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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