Not just a 'tender of beasts' : Radagast's connection to Slavic Mythology - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Encaitare · 03-24-2005, 11:43 AM

It's a really interesting possibility, and perhaps Tolkien kept this figure in mind while creating the character. I checked the Encyclopedia of Arda, and it gave this description for the origins of his name:

Quote:

In Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, Christopher Tolkien indicates that his father intended to change this derivation and bring Radagast in line with the other wizard-names Gandalf and Saruman, by associating it with the old language of the Men of the Vales of Anduin. No alternative meaning is provided (indeed, Tolkien stated that the name was 'not now clearly interpretable'). One possible source (a somewhat unfounded conjecture) would be Old English rudugást, 'brown spirit' (rudu strictly means 'red' or 'red-brown' - it is the source of the modern word 'ruddy').

This etymology is not definite, but it seems to make sense. Maybe what happened was that Tolkien noticed the similarities between the two words rudugást and Radigost, and decided to combine their traits: the "brown" part from the Old English word (and brown implies a closeness with the earth like Radagast had) and the aspect of "tending" (although it's animals and birds Radagast looks after, not travelers and hosts).

Keeper of Dol Guldur · 03-24-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Radagast, or also refered to as Radigost, Radegast, Radogost and other similar variations, is a Slavic god: the protector of travellers, traders and foreigners, and patron of hospitality.

It seems like Beorn must have known this, maybe he WOULD have turned 13 dwarves, a hobbit, and a wizard aside if he hadn't been concerned for what Radagast might do ... make his honey rotten or something.

But anyway, it sure explains what Radagast was doing in Wilderland, so near to the great road and Mirkwood.

Protecting travellers. From spiders? Maybe. From Dol Guldur? Maybe.

Neurion · 03-24-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

It seems like Beorn must have known this, maybe he WOULD have turned 13 dwarves, a hobbit, and a wizard aside if he hadn't been concerned for what Radagast might do ... make his honey rotten or something.

But anyway, it sure explains what Radagast was doing in Wilderland, so near to the great road and Mirkwood.

Protecting travellers. From spiders? Maybe. From Dol Guldur? Maybe.

Interesting. Very interesting....

THE Ka · 03-24-2005, 05:58 PM

Wonderful connections!

I'm really surpriced people would actually add to the thread...

I'm going to see if there is any more information in Slavic mythology about Radagast. I hope I find some more that can help, though there is a dreadfully low amount of information about Slavic myth...

~ Research Ka

03-25-2005, 09:57 AM

I live in the Beskydy mountains and have often wondered if Tolkien knew about Radegast. There is little info on ancient Slavic folklore, even in Czech, around here, sadly.

Encaitare's post makes me think the connection is coincidental...but even with the Old English connection, it seems like Tolkien could've been aware of it, being such a follower of folklore.

Dum, the dwarvish word for Mansion, apparently(Khazad-Dum, Mansion of the Dwarves) is the Czech word for "house" or "home". I doubt if that is coincidental and if not, he must've had some familiarity with Slavic things.

Although it's not strictly "on subject" I would be very interested indeed in any info you dug up on Radegast and Slavic myths.

Galadriel55 · 11-08-2013, 06:02 PM

Ooooo, why did I not see this thread earlier? I love mythologies!

Radegast/Radigost is not as well-known as other Slavonic gods, and it's very difficult to find any good sources on Slavonic mythology in general because much of it was destroyed early on in history. But here is what I can say about Radegast on behalf of Russia:

Firstly, as was mentioned above, his name can be dissected into rad+gost' - "joy"+"guest". This would imply a welcome for travelers and etc.

However, apparently his name once was Rizvoditz, which to me kind of sounds like "splitter", "separater" (from razvod). According to the source, his name represents quarrel, strife. This source also says that his later name, Radegast, is derived from "ratniy gost'" - Warrior guest, and that overall he is both the god of war and the protector of peaceful guests.

Yet other sources say that Radegast stands for "guests of councils", "head of councils". I do not see a resemblance in any of the names that these sources give, but they just might be too Western Slavonic for me to analyze with certainty.

And yet others describe him as the god that judges deceased souls. Go figure.

So how much of this is can be related to Radagast? Not that much. And while I don't think Tolkien drew that much from Slavonic sources, Radegast is a very Western Slavonic god, and his "cult" was geographically close to modern day Germany, so it is very possible that Germanic languages preserve some reference to him.

jallanite · 11-09-2013, 12:00 AM

I likewise did not find much about the Slavic god Radagast in the essay “Obscure Languages” in my Introduction to Elvish, on page 175. What I wrote was only:

Early chroniclers speak of a Slavic god named Radegást ( Радега́ст ). His temple was at Rethra (earlier Radogoszsz) made of wood, and rested on animal horns. Its outside was covered with figures of the gods. Within were kept special insignia and a stabled horse. Some believe that the reference is to a different god altogether and that the name of the town has been erroneously applied to the god.

I no longer know the source of this information other than that I consulted more than a single book.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radegast_%28god%29 for further information about this god, of which little is known.

03-24-2005, 05:58 PM	#4
THE Ka Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: As with the flygja Posts: 1,403	Wonderful connections! I'm really surpriced people would actually add to the thread... I'm going to see if there is any more information in Slavic mythology about Radagast. I hope I find some more that can help, though there is a dreadfully low amount of information about Slavic myth... ~ Research Ka __________________ Vinur, vinur skilur tú meg? Veitst tú ongan loyniveg? Hevur tú reikað líka sum eg, í endaleysu tokuni?

11-08-2013, 06:02 PM	#6
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,523	Ooooo, why did I not see this thread earlier? I love mythologies! Radegast/Radigost is not as well-known as other Slavonic gods, and it's very difficult to find any good sources on Slavonic mythology in general because much of it was destroyed early on in history. But here is what I can say about Radegast on behalf of Russia: Firstly, as was mentioned above, his name can be dissected into rad+gost' - "joy"+"guest". This would imply a welcome for travelers and etc. However, apparently his name once was Rizvoditz, which to me kind of sounds like "splitter", "separater" (from razvod). According to the source, his name represents quarrel, strife. This source also says that his later name, Radegast, is derived from "ratniy gost'" - Warrior guest, and that overall he is both the god of war and the protector of peaceful guests. Yet other sources say that Radegast stands for "guests of councils", "head of councils". I do not see a resemblance in any of the names that these sources give, but they just might be too Western Slavonic for me to analyze with certainty. And yet others describe him as the god that judges deceased souls. Go figure. So how much of this is can be related to Radagast? Not that much. And while I don't think Tolkien drew that much from Slavonic sources, Radegast is a very Western Slavonic god, and his "cult" was geographically close to modern day Germany, so it is very possible that Germanic languages preserve some reference to him. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-09-2013, 12:00 AM	#7
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	I likewise did not find much about the Slavic god Radagast in the essay “Obscure Languages” in my Introduction to Elvish, on page 175. What I wrote was only: Early chroniclers speak of a Slavic god named Radegást ( Радега́ст ). His temple was at Rethra (earlier Radogoszsz) made of wood, and rested on animal horns. Its outside was covered with figures of the gods. Within were kept special insignia and a stabled horse. Some believe that the reference is to a different god altogether and that the name of the town has been erroneously applied to the god. I no longer know the source of this information other than that I consulted more than a single book. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radegast_%28god%29 for further information about this god, of which little is known.

03-25-2005, 09:57 AM	#5
Aquarius the King Guest Posts: n/a	I live in the Beskydy mountains and have often wondered if Tolkien knew about Radegast. There is little info on ancient Slavic folklore, even in Czech, around here, sadly. Encaitare's post makes me think the connection is coincidental...but even with the Old English connection, it seems like Tolkien could've been aware of it, being such a follower of folklore. Dum, the dwarvish word for Mansion, apparently(Khazad-Dum, Mansion of the Dwarves) is the Czech word for "house" or "home". I doubt if that is coincidental and if not, he must've had some familiarity with Slavic things. Although it's not strictly "on subject" I would be very interested indeed in any info you dug up on Radegast and Slavic myths.