LotR -- Book 4 - Chapter 04 - Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

You know, after reading Boromir88's and davem's points about Sam and his musing over the fallen Southron, it occurred to me that perhaps Sam sympathized in part because he saw himself (and Frodo and Gollum, for that matter) as though they were reluctant invaders themselves. Seeing how the Rangers felt about the crew marching north to help attack Gondor, perhaps Sam wondered if he might somehow be viewed similarly.

Regarding this most recent mention of Frodo’s more peaceful sleep as well as Sam’s pity, I would bring forward again a quote from the preceding chapter. I think it is important to this discussion and not all of us have been able to keep up with the threads.

Yet even as he spoke his last words to Saruman, and the Palantir crashed in fire on the steps of the Orthanc, his thought was ever on Frodo and Samwise, over the long leagues his mind searched for them in hope and pity.

Maybe Frodo felt it, not knowing it, as he had upon Amon Hen, even though he believed Gandalf was gone, gone forever into the shadow of Moria far away.

This is a quote that I did not pick up on the first few times I read through the books, but I do think that Gandalf helped them along, encouraging them, even when he did not know just where they might be, and they in turn thought him dead. Maybe not as dramatically as he had on Amon Hen, but certainly as effectively.

It is interesting to note the difference between the landscape surrounding the Morannon and Ithilien, the first deserted by Men and second still frequented by them. Granted the area by Morannon probably never was lovely, it’s description seems almost lunar compared to very real beauty of Ithilien. Where the Black Gate is bleak and sickly to all five senses, Tolkien description of the rangers’ former homeland brings the place alive to all of the reader’s five senses. This description seems to highlight the beauty of Middle-Earth, contrasting it with the devastation that Sauron (and Melkor before him) would have it become. It is as if as long as Men do not give up ‘the good fight’, things may be marred but still possess an innate beauty.

To tell you the truth, I would not know a plot device from and egg beater, but I do enjoy this chapter immensely, regardless of, or perhaps because of, my literary ignorance.

Excellent observations on the parallels between the meeting of Faramir and the meeting of Aragorn, Mithalwen! I don’t believe I would ever have put that together for myself. Thanks.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Ah! One other thing I had forgot to mention....

'Ware! Ware!' cried Damrod to his companion. 'May the Valar turn him aside! Mûmak! Mûmak!'

Isn't this the first time that we have heard about the Valar from Mankind? I could be wrong, but it struck me as unexpected, especially given the fact that they were cut off from the elves. And it is yet another affirmation of this peoples' heritage. Despite it's decline, the Gondorians appear to have have passed down more than architecture, language and an excellent library.

[Lathriel]

This chapter made me realize something. Throughout LOTR a theme that keeps on re-occuring is that of a place that was once beautiful but which is now corrupted or in its demise.
Ithillien counts of course because as the hobbits travel through the land they see pieces of buildings that must once have been very beautiful.
Also you have Minas Morgul which was once Minas Ithil but has now been corrupted by the Nazgul. You also have the city of Gondor which is also losing some of its former glory.
Plus of course the demise of the elves, and them leaving Middle Earth.
So overall you see a world that is losing its former beauty. For me this adds a feeling of hopelessness and it also makes me wish fervently that the world can come back to its former glory. Meanwhile you realize that this can only be done with the destruction of the ring.
This can also be reated to the world of today, when older people always complain about how the world used to be better when they were young. I certainly get that feeling when I hear my grandparents talk about what they used to do when they were kids.