Luthien: Maia or Elf. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 03-27-2005, 04:59 AM

Random thoughts on Choice':

Could the choice of becoming mortal for an elf if they marry a mortal be due to the Christian idea that when a couple marry they become 'one flesh'. If the difference between the races is not due to differences in their fea but in the relationship of their fea to their hroa, then for the two to truly become 'one' flesh their natures must 'match'. So, as the 'gift' of Eru to Men (ie death) cannot be withdrawn (Tuor???), it would be necessary for the Elf to change the nature of the 'relationship' of their fea to their hroa & hence of their psycho-spiritual relationship with Arda itself.

I think this is possibly a central matter in Luthien's (& Idril & Arwen's) choice. Its not simply about not being seperated from their beloved when they die, but of their essential nature being changed. The next question that occurs is how this affects their relationship with their former families. Is it simply a matter of their seperation at death - 'loss eternal' - or is their more to it? Is there a sort of 'one flesh' relationship between the Elves of particular families? Does the 'Choice' involve almost a kind of spiritual 'divorce' from other members of the family which even during life, while the 'former' Elf & their family remain in Arda, results in a breaking of their intimacy? I wonder about the reason for Beren & Luthien, on their return into Arda, not going to live in Menegroth where they would surely (at first thought) have been welcome. Perhaps, if I'm right here, such a return would have been too painful for all concerned as the former intimacy between Thingol, Melian & Luthien would have been no more & what's more, they would have known it never could be again....

03-27-2005, 04:59 AM	#8
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Random thoughts on Choice': Could the choice of becoming mortal for an elf if they marry a mortal be due to the Christian idea that when a couple marry they become 'one flesh'. If the difference between the races is not due to differences in their fea but in the relationship of their fea to their hroa, then for the two to truly become 'one' flesh their natures must 'match'. So, as the 'gift' of Eru to Men (ie death) cannot be withdrawn (Tuor???), it would be necessary for the Elf to change the nature of the 'relationship' of their fea to their hroa & hence of their psycho-spiritual relationship with Arda itself. I think this is possibly a central matter in Luthien's (& Idril & Arwen's) choice. Its not simply about not being seperated from their beloved when they die, but of their essential nature being changed. The next question that occurs is how this affects their relationship with their former families. Is it simply a matter of their seperation at death - 'loss eternal' - or is their more to it? Is there a sort of 'one flesh' relationship between the Elves of particular families? Does the 'Choice' involve almost a kind of spiritual 'divorce' from other members of the family which even during life, while the 'former' Elf & their family remain in Arda, results in a breaking of their intimacy? I wonder about the reason for Beren & Luthien, on their return into Arda, not going to live in Menegroth where they would surely (at first thought) have been welcome. Perhaps, if I'm right here, such a return would have been too painful for all concerned as the former intimacy between Thingol, Melian & Luthien would have been no more & what's more, they would have known it never could be again.... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."