Uses & misuses....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That's pretty horrible. The other example that springs to mind is the use of Tolkien's work to promote race-hate propaganda.

But anything, seriously anything, can be twisted; and a lot of things can be twisted in millions of different ways. Think of all the groups who hijacked Nietzche's philsophy; total opposites of each other and they all claimed him as their own.

You could construct a compelling argument for either side of the gun-ownership debate from Tolkien. I just don't take it seriously.

[davem]

Well, the neo-nazi's use of Tolkien's works is familiar to most of us, but its the other uses/misuses that interest me. The idea that Faramir (of all characters) word's could be used to support the gun lobby is odd (well, it is to me, but maybe not to others)

And what about all the commercialism around the movies. I don't know if Tolkien would have been appalled by the action figures, posters, jewellery, etc, or simply confirmed in his low opinion of modern society, but it is odd that his work could provide the source for such things. Its also, perhaps, odd, that the people buying all that love the world he created. Do they also love his philosophy, or do they take something else from it, something he didn't intend...

Or am I reading too much into this?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Nice thread, davem. I know what you mean.

Example: For those who have watched the cast commentary on the EE DVDs, think of what the cast has to say about people who take the movies as being pro-war. There are constant battles, loads of killing, weapons, and such. And yet, for anyone with half a brain, it *should* (cough cough) be obvious that, like Faramir said, "I do not love the sword for its brightness", etcetera. War is a needed part of life, to protect that which is deemed right (which makes it such a tragedy, since each side thinks they are the ones correct), and yet it is a horrible part of life. Look at the way it is depicted by Tolkien: blood, horror, loss, grief, children dying, bodies hewn. War may be needed, but it is not a good thing. The only pro- part of war is that which it is waged for.

Fea

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

Its also, perhaps, odd, that the people buying all that love the world he created. Do they also love his philosophy, or do they take something else from it, something he didn't intend...

This question gets close to some of the points in the C-thread. In that the reader often (if not usually) 'sees' things within a text that the author might not have intended. And indeed, there may be references within a text so personal to the author that the reader will never notice them. It might well be that what the reader picks out from a text is ultimately wrong, but nevertheless they do pick these things out.

One of the things which makes Tolkien's work so enjoyable is that it is not didactic and we must search to find the meaning. It is subtle and doesn't come along and hit you over the head (so to speak), as shown by the changing interpretations over time; Tolkien used to be interpreted as primarily an environmentalist, while nowadays we see him more as a philosopher. His work is fluid, so its no surprise that a lot of different meanings can be taken from it. I suppose the difference between 'us' and 'them' is that we all see ourselves as reasoned fans and like to refer to things like Tolkien's Letters to see 'what he thought about it'.

About merchandising, Tolkien was already a huge money making machine before the films came out. Without even mentioning the vast publishing opportunities surrounding the books and their multifarious editions, there were already several lines of toys (Middle Earth Toys made action figures including Barrow-Wights etc), pewter figures, porcelain figures, etc. There has also been a line of calendars and diaries for many years, many different posters, and there have also been lines of jewellery. Much of this was quite hard to get hold of before the films but has since surfaced on such places as ebay, but the very existence of it suggests that Tolkien fans have always been greedy for merchandise, and that includes everyone who was a fan before the films.

[davem]

Found this through a reference in the One Ring book 'People's Guide to JRR Tolkien:http://www.sorento-club.de/modules.p...article&sid=27

Click on the trailer link & you'll see an ad for the Kia Sorento off road vehicle, based around the Fellowship movie. Now, obviously, people, I accept, take different things from Tolkien's work, but using a movie of LotR to promote off-road vehicles! Surely Tolkien would have been appalled.

Heres a bit of background on the campain from Tolkien On Line:

Kia's effort is tied to the introduction of a new model, the Sorento, a midsize sports utility vehicle that is expected to be in showrooms by September, a company spokesman said. A free copy of the DVD will also be given to anyone who takes a test drive of any of its cars, a point that Kia's commercial goes to great lengths to make.

In the spot, produced by davidand goliath, an independent agency in Los Angeles, a man and his wife are driving a Sorento. They are pursued by ghostlike figures on horseback, similar to those that appear in "The Fellowship of the Ring." Finally, they catch up to the vehicle and tap on the window. The driver rolls it down, and one of the figures — it turns out that it is a Kia dealer — hands him an object.

"Here's your free DVD," he says.

Wally Anderson, vice president of marketing for Kia, said that the carmaker expected dealers to give away 60,000 DVD's over the next couple of months, Kia's full allotment. During a similar effort last autumn in connection with the video release of "Shrek," the company handed out 40,000 DVD's. That promotion, tied to Kia's introduction of its Sedona minivan, resulted in the sale of an estimated 4,000 additional vehicles, he said.

(whole article:http://www.tolkienonline.com/docs/7049.html)

[Rumil]

Even the devil can quote scripture !

[davem]

Of course, but its still interesting that certain groups & organisations want to be so closely associated with Lord of the Rings. The car manufacturer for instance. Did the advertising company know anything about Tolkien's hatred for the 'infernal combustion engine'? If they did, & if their clients did, were they ignoring that fact or trying to subvert the work? Clearly they wanted to make a connection between their product - an suv, designed for off road use, providing easy access to the countryside - & a movie which is set in 'the great outdoors'. Yet their product in particular, which brings said 'I.C.E.' into the heart of the countryside would have been Tolkien's worst nightmare. He would probably have described the drivers of such vehicles as 'orcs'.

Of course, seeing Black Riders approaching & proving to be friendly with the driver of such a vehicle could be seen as subverting the company & its products.

So, we have neo-Nazi groups, the gun lobby, motor manufacturers, fundamentalist Christians, environmentalists, pagans, the makers of fast food et al, all wanting to claim Tolkien & his works as their own. But how many of them have understood Tolkien's message & his underlying philosophy?

Another question that occurs to me is how all these 'claims' affect the public's understanding of Tolkien's work. How many people will turn to these products/philosophies because of their love of LotR (books or movies) & how many people will be turned off these products for similar reasons? Will there be movie/book fans who go out & buy a Kia Sorrento (or an uzi )because they see that ad or read that web page? Will there be fans who boycott the products because of what they know about Tolkien's feelings?