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Old 04-04-2005, 01:36 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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This is a fascinating theory, Keeper! I think there could possibly be some elements of truth to it; however, there is one flaw in your statement about Galadriel's gifts to the other members of the Fellowship:
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she gave Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas, Pippin and Merry weapons
As a matter of fact, she gave only Legolas a weapon, the bow and arrows. Aragorn received a sheath for his sword; Boromir, Merry and Pippin received golden/silver belts. Granted, tradition has those as signs of knighthood, but they were not (primarily ) intended for use as a weapon.
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Old 04-04-2005, 06:37 AM   #2
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Great thoughts, Keeper. What you say makes good sense to me. One further thought, though:

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Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur
I don't think she expected Sam to be brave enough to accompany Frodo, underestimating his simplicity.
I wonder if the opposite might be true. Perhaps she saw that, if the Fellowship was to break, Frodo would need a companion. One who was courageous and loyal, who would keep Frodo's spirits up and who would not desert him. The obvious choice would be the Hobbits, rather than one of the "warriors", since they would be as adept as Frodo at hiding themselves and moving covertly.

So that would leave Sam, Merry and Pippin. And of those, Sam would be the most obvious choice, given his nature and his pre-existing bond of loyalty to Frodo. But perhaps she tempted all three of the Hobbits with thoughts of their homeland, with the aim of reinforcing their resolve to continue (or prompting them to give up if they did not have such resolve) and with the hope that at least one of them would accompany Frodo on the final stage of his journey.

Possibly, she hoped that all three would accompany Frodo. Certainly, all three were loyal to, and had a strong bond of friendship with, him. But, as matters turned out, it was only Sam who knew Frodo's mind sufficiently to follow him when he made to set off on his own.
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Old 04-05-2005, 12:08 AM   #3
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Re:

I agree Saucepan, that could definitely be what she tempted Merry and Pippin with. Obviously when she realized Sam was the best choice, she showed him a little glimpse of what could be happening back home in the Mirror as a further test, and then when he passed that one, it was pretty much guaranteed.

As for Merry and Pippin, obviously they never got a chance to go with Frodo.

Other than that ...

Boromir, Merry and Pippin's belts, and Aragorn's sheath ...

What use are things of value like gold and silver when it comes to remaining undetected, and going into the black heart of Mordor? Especially if Frodo didn't make it out, what would be the point in his carrying anything of value that was frivelous (the Mithril coat obviously doesn't count because of the tremendous practical value).

But then, you could argue that she did have hope of them returning, because she gave Sam that Mallorn seed and the Lorien-soil.

But then, I'd say ... that's something she had plenty of, to her own people of little value, which she didn't think she'd have a chance of giving again after the first time ... and since Sam's vision in the mirror had to do with the cutting down of trees in the Shire, she thought it'd be nice to help him personally exact retribution if he ever made it home.

We know she likes personally solving problems ... she personally demolished Dol Guldur after Celeborn and the Galadhrim destroyed Sauron's northern forces.

Everything she gave seems to have served a purpose ...

Except Boromir's belt ... but then, it along with the boat, seemed to show Faramir that there were strange things involved in Boromir's death, and prevented him from jumping to conclusions. Unlikely ... but the only way I can see a point in Boromir's gift.

And slightly off topic for just a second ... I really want to visualize those battles between Celeborn, Thranduil, Grimbeorn, Dain, and Brand, and the Orcs of the Grey and Misty Mountains. Somebody should make an LOTR Graphic Novel ...

Okay ... back on to topic ...

DISCUSS!
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Old 04-05-2005, 03:59 AM   #4
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But then, you could argue that she did have hope of them returning, because she gave Sam that Mallorn seed and the Lorien-soil.
Or she could already have assumed, or foreseen, that Sam would accompany Frodo to Mount Doom. And since the Ring would eventually be too much for Frodo to bear, Galadriel gave those gifts to Sam to continually give him hope that they would return alive to the Shire and that he could yet put those gifts to good use, and in a way give him a sort of supernatural strength to survive the Quest. Sam would, in turn, revive hope in Frodo's heart once he succumbs to hopelessness, and bear him and his Burden if needs be. Remember how Sam tried to remind Frodo of the Shire and other things of the "outside world" when they were nearing Mount Doom? Or when Sam carried Frodo?
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Old 04-05-2005, 03:40 PM   #5
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Re:

Yeah, that's possible too.

It does definitely feel, looking back, like she had a feeling Frodo and Sam would be going it alone, and tried to speed that thought process along ...
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Old 04-05-2005, 05:33 PM   #6
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That's very possible Dol Guldur. Gandalf says in The White Rider "She told me he (Boromir) was in peril." Perhaps Galadriel caught hints of the Fellowship beginning to fall apart. She tested each member to see who would stick with Frodo, and started the "breaking of the Fellowship." Not for evil purposes, but possibly to realize the sooner the better? Perhaps she just awoke in Boromir the "sleeping giant" because maybe the longer it went "dormant" the worse it would be?

Edit: The fellowship was also hit with constant bad luck, and it almost seemed destined to break apart. I mean first the wolf attack, then the storms on Caradhras, then all the evil in Moria, then the problems down Anduin and the argument between Aragorn and Boromir. It just seemed constant doom hung around the Fellowship and Galadriel realized it was best to break it.

For Aragorn, it's not that he might have not been loyal to Frodo (I mean if he wanted to he could have easily taken the ring in Bree and going to Rivendell), but just that his path was ment to be different. Not to go along with Frodo, but to save Minas Tirith. As Aragorn makes an oath to Boromir....
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"No!" said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. "You have conquered. Few have gained such victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall."~emphasis mine
With that oath, I think it becomes clear that he wasn't ment to stick with Frodo, and follow him to the end, but to try and save Gondor.
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Old 04-05-2005, 09:03 PM   #7
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Re:

I wonder then, if Galadriel realized that it would take Boromir's death for Aragorn to resolve to go to Minas Tirith, now that Gandalf had fallen.

Because Aragorn had always intended to return to Minas Tirith with Boromir ... but the second Gandalf was lost and he was forced to become guide to Frodo, he sort of got lost in the task at hand, and obviously made many comments about not knowing which road to take.

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I am not Gandalf, and though I have tried to bear his part, I do not know what design or hope he had for his hour, if indeed he had any.
Aragorn then suggested that he and Gimli accompany Frodo and Sam, while the others went to Minas Tirith. But he only suggested this out of loyalty to Frodo.

What good would Anduril and the returning King be in Mordor? Or what use would Gandalf the Grey have been, for that matter? Gandalf couldn't have concealed his power from the malice of Sauron, not once he entered Sauron's lands.
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