Reincarnation - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aiwendil · 04-07-2005, 07:01 AM

Tolkien changed his mind about Elvish reincarnation (as he did about so many things). The earlier conception was that an Elvish spirit ('fea') could be reborn in one of his or her descendants. The child would have the soul, the mind, and the memories of the ancestor.

At some point, however, Tolkien decided that this was not workable, because in effect the parents of the reborn Elf would be cheated out of having a new child. Iluvatar wouldn't allow this. Rebirth didn't fit with the overarching metaphysics he had developed for his world. So he replaced the concept of rebirth with one of reincarnation. The spirit of an Elf, he supposed, retains an exact memory of its body even after death. The Valar, then, are capable of creating a new body for the spirit, identical to the old.

The short answer about Glorfindel of Rivendell is that he is indeed the same as the Glorfindel of Gondolin who died in combat with a Balrog. That this conception was present from the time of the writing of LotR is clear from a note in the outlining for the Rivendell chapter, something to the effect of "Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin", I believe. Many years later, in fact shortly before his death, Tolkien considered the character of Glorfindel in two essays - and though he does not start with it as an assumption, he does come to the conclusion that Glorfindel of Rivendell is the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin.

The note on Glorfindel from the writing of LotR is found, I believe, in HoMe VI (unless my memory is deceiving me; it could be VII). The texts dealing with the metaphysical issues of rebirth and reincarnation are found in HoMe X. The late essays on Glorfindel are in HoMe XII.

I hope that was helpful. I definitely recommend continuing with the HoMe series; there are some complexities that I glossed over in my summary.

04-07-2005, 07:01 AM	#2
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Tolkien changed his mind about Elvish reincarnation (as he did about so many things). The earlier conception was that an Elvish spirit ('fea') could be reborn in one of his or her descendants. The child would have the soul, the mind, and the memories of the ancestor. At some point, however, Tolkien decided that this was not workable, because in effect the parents of the reborn Elf would be cheated out of having a new child. Iluvatar wouldn't allow this. Rebirth didn't fit with the overarching metaphysics he had developed for his world. So he replaced the concept of rebirth with one of reincarnation. The spirit of an Elf, he supposed, retains an exact memory of its body even after death. The Valar, then, are capable of creating a new body for the spirit, identical to the old. The short answer about Glorfindel of Rivendell is that he is indeed the same as the Glorfindel of Gondolin who died in combat with a Balrog. That this conception was present from the time of the writing of LotR is clear from a note in the outlining for the Rivendell chapter, something to the effect of "Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin", I believe. Many years later, in fact shortly before his death, Tolkien considered the character of Glorfindel in two essays - and though he does not start with it as an assumption, he does come to the conclusion that Glorfindel of Rivendell is the same as Glorfindel of Gondolin. The note on Glorfindel from the writing of LotR is found, I believe, in HoMe VI (unless my memory is deceiving me; it could be VII). The texts dealing with the metaphysical issues of rebirth and reincarnation are found in HoMe X. The late essays on Glorfindel are in HoMe XII. I hope that was helpful. I definitely recommend continuing with the HoMe series; there are some complexities that I glossed over in my summary.