Aragorn and Arwen: More than kissing?

[Nimrodel_9]

If A&A were already lovers, then what was stopping them from just eloping and living out their days in obscurity

I've always thought it was Arwen's bond with her father. You have to remember she loved him, too.

I have to say it was the kiss at the end that startled me

Ditto.

I would just like to say that one of the things I enjoyed most about PJ's style in making LotR, is he didn't include any "behind closed doors" content. Most directors would have.

Nim

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Nimrodel_9

I've always thought it was Arwen's bond with her father. You have to remember she loved him, too.

But she could have had the best of both worlds - hung out with Aragorn until he died, then go back with Dad - until Sauron devoured Rivendell. In the movie it just seems that they already had somewhat of a life together, and they just wanted to finish that 'war thing' so that both could move uptown .

I would just like to say that one of the things I enjoyed most about PJ's style in making LotR, is he didn't include any "behind closed doors" content. Most directors would have.

Just rewatched the scene. There's the the first 'suck the lungs out while we twirl around kiss' followed by the more discrete 'Dad and the rest of the free world are watching kiss.' #1 was not as bad as I thought, as it was a combo bear hug, lift and spin while kissing hard.

In regards to behind closed doors, I would say that sometimes the imagined is more romantic/fantastic. Arwen kissing hard dilutes her elven air a bit, but I guess that it could have been much worse. And if we are to assume that Aragorn did not know the fate of Arwen - after the breaking of the evenstar necklace and/or her going to Valinor - I guess his passion can be excused, as his runner-up (Eowyn) was suddenly off of the list, and he may have felt that he was going to have to check out Ioreth's sisters.

[Mithalwen]

It is just the "going for the jugular" style attack - listen to the actors commentary!! and they didn' t have to wait 40 years to kiss... they were shown kissing in Rivendell.

[Tinuviel of Denton]

So they were. But, from the experience of a girl who's been seperated from her boyfriend for months on end (Rar. College for the both of us.), I can tell you that Aragorn's reaction did not surprise me in the slightest.

Mine does the exact same thing to me when we see each other for breaks, and there isn't even the war on and possibility of death and not seeing one another for approximately a year, thing.

I think it must be a guy thing.

[Mithalwen]

Eeek .... but as a spectator... couldn't help but think of a cobra lunging at its prey.....

[Lalwendë]

I think in the film they had made out that Aragorn might think Arwen to have somehow 'passed away'. There is the scene where Elrond tells Aragorn that Arwen is dying (the one where Elrond turns up at Dunharrow to indluge his love for cloak swirling in a camp fashion... ), and then couple this with the scene where the Evenstar 'breaks', and Aragorn may have lost some of his hope that Arwen would be his. So in the circumstances, his passion is quite understandable!

I didn't see anything untoward in their previous scenes together; I think these were left quite 'open' in the sense that the viewer could read into them what he or she wanted to see. Though looking at such scenes in the context of the film version of the story, the fact that Arwen has a vision of the child she would go on to have with Aragorn might also suggest that they had not yet slept together.

It is important to view the whole romance as something quite different to the one portrayed in the books. Tolkien stated that Elves did not have marriage ceremonies and that the 'act of union', as I think he delicately puts it, stood for such a ceremony and created a permanent bond - so as seen in the films, if they had slept together then they would have been already married; I think this shows why it's important to separate film and book. As to whether all Elves were always happy with their chosen partner, there is one example of a union that ended in a break - and that is when *Finwe's first 'wife' wearies of her physical existence and he takes another 'wife', but the eventual results of this are not entirely happy.

*EDIT - D'oh! I had originally put Feanor's first wife! A large handshake to anyone who managed to spot it before this swift edit.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I didn't see anything untoward in their previous scenes together; I think these were left quite 'open' in the sense that the viewer could read into them what he or she wanted to see. Though looking at such scenes in the context of the film version of the story, the fact that Arwen has a vision of the child she would go on to have with Aragorn might also suggest that they had not yet slept together.

I agree that the scenes could be interpretted differently by various viewers. My take has been colored by a recent conversation with my brother who has a teenaged son. Seems that over the weekend my nephew had a girl over the house and the two watched a movie together in a darkened basement while my brother and his wife were upstairs. Also, other people have said that they at times take the girlfriend/boyfriend along when going on a trip.

It wasn't always like this, at least as far as I was aware, and so I considered that possibly Aragorn's hanging around in Arwen's room was more acceptable to today's audience. What I mean is where I would see the scenes as 'more than courting' the 18-25 crowd would see it as 'no big thing.'

It also occurred to me that assuming that Arwen and Aragorn are perceived as adults - actually older adults - then what's the big deal anyway. We're not viewing teenagers who are not fully clued in to the consequences of their actions.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by alatar

It wasn't always like this, at least as far as I was aware, and so I considered that possibly Aragorn's hanging around in Arwen's room was more acceptable to today's audience. What I mean is where I would see the scenes as 'more than courting' the 18-25 crowd would see it as 'no big thing.'

I myself would have seen those scenes as 'no big thing' - but then I am coming at this from the perspective of the books, where it is clear that two figures such as Aragorn and Arwen could be entirely trusted not to 'go too far' as they would be all too aware that if they did then this would mean they were together for life.

But it's interesting that you say that us older viewers (well, speaking for myself, I'm older anyway...not to be impolite ) would be more likely to read something into such scenes, as we were probably more likely to have had parents who were highly cautious about our boyfriends/girlfriends when we were young. I don't get that sense, but I also do not have any children; maybe it is something which parents perceive?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I myself would have seen those scenes as 'no big thing' - but then I am coming at this from the perspective of the books, where it is clear that two figures such as Aragorn and Arwen could be entirely trusted not to 'go too far' as they would be all too aware that if they did then this would mean they were together for life.

Agreed. I've been trying to separate the books from the movies so that I get the 'full PJ experience.' Thought that in doing so I would understand some of the other posters in other threads more readily.

Plus again I see fantasy as including the 'dreamy romantic stuff' like the "Beauty and the Beast" TV series starring Linda Hamilton and Ron Perlman from the past. Any 'spit-swapping' was off screen, and the build up to 'the kiss' was in most cases longer than the actual kiss itself (by the way, yes, I am a guy... ).

But it's interesting that you say that us older viewers (well, speaking for myself, I'm older anyway...not to be impolite ) would be more likely to read something into such scenes, as we were probably more likely to have had parents who were highly cautious about our boyfriends/girlfriends when we were young. I don't get that sense, but I also do not have any children; maybe it is something which parents perceive?

It's possible that we are of the same generation, and most days it's the cliche of 'not the years but the miles.' Anyway, don't think that I see the scenes as more than they are due to being a parent (my oldest is into the 'no girls' stage of life), but possibly from being raised with cautious parents (and dating young women whose parents were the same) and having grown up in a part of the world in which everything takes place at least ten years after it happens elsewhere.