The Emblems of Religion don't belong ... or do they?

[bilbo_baggins]

Originally Posted by alatar

His writings aren't history?

Well, Tolkien did say that he was trying to write something emulating history, but his works seem to be more of a mythology and legendary background. I could go on to discuss with some fervor about how his works actually seem to disagree with the Christian view of world history that he fervently believed in. I therefore tend to think he was trying to write a piece of entertainment and not actually something that was seriously trying to explain history. Sort of a joke if you will...

Originally Posted by alatar

Surely. And less lofty citizens such as B. Butterbur held them in esteem too. But there seems to me a difference in reverence. And don't angels declare themselves as messengers of God whereas the Istari were not to be as open about their purpose (though Gandalf dropped a hint to Denethor). Plus the Valar sent the Istari, not Iluvatar. But I quibble.

Yes, you are quibbiling, but I have to beg your ear here as well. Yes, in many cases, with Mary, for example, the angel declares itself a messenger, but how do you know that the person sitting beside you on the bus isn't an angel? Perhaps the people you see walking down the street have a spiritual purpose in their comings and goings. But I digress into theology again.

Originally Posted by alatar

Interesting. But I would first ask if we've ever found any giant bones of course. Then I would ask how these beings came into...well...being.

Are we to assume that angelic beings can mate with humans? How would that be, as angels do not have physicality? I would assume that fallen angels would not have this ability at the least. If they did, then how would one be able to tell the difference between a fallen angel that took on a body and the risen Christ?

Tolkien, via Iluvatar, permitted Maia-elf-human hybrids.

Interesting discussion. 'Applause'.

I do have to bring up the fact that 'bones of unusual size' have been found in the Middle East, but they are not complete evidence I admit. Instead I rely on the tales and legends that speak of them, and tell of how they still live among some of us. And yes, since I believe that they were descendants of angels that descended, rather than fell, that angels can take physicality of some sort.

And one would be able to tell the difference between any angel (not just a fallen one) and the risen Christ (or His Holy Spirit for that matter) because His presence would begin to fill the space in your human soul which is expressed in man's desire for spirituality. Or will we have to disagree that that exists as well?


One must needs realize that without traces, or emblems, of religion, such as Faramir and co. facing the West, that tie back into this world, the entire necessity of the struggle dies. Even in this world, if we lose the emblems of religion, the need for us to be on the side of 'good' dissappears. If it has no meaning why should we not join with Saruman and Sauron? At least then we can enjoy power and opulence as long we are his faithful servants. He would enjoy good people with high rank like Gimli or Aragorn, Legolas or Gandalf.

The emblems of religion keep the good side, the right side, the thing we fight for.

b_b