From the Enemy's Eyes-Rohirrim Charge on Helm's Deep/Pellenor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Bywaters · 04-26-2005, 09:14 AM

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...238721-8922813

The above is a link to most of the books in the Sharpe series. Sharpe's Eagle is a good one to start with as it was the first written (but not the first chronogically).

I think a weapon such as a catapult could have been useful in disrupting the charges we see in the film. They would have to be very large and quick to reload to make a big difference though. I imagine that the horsemen would be able to see these weapons being fired and have time to react to them. It would however ruin the desired effect of the charge.

mormegil · 04-26-2005, 01:46 PM

IF, you were able to get the catapult aimed at the charge and it is on a narrow path/slope whatever, than it would definately disrupt the charge. I just don't see that happening very well though. Again the rate of fire would only allow one shot to be placed but if you could do it just right it would be great. Multiple catapults launched at a larged charge with multiple volleys of arrow would be a bit different but each catapult again would only get one shot and the aim would need to be on.

Arrows aimed at horses would be your best quick defense which is obviously what the orcs needed in this situation.

WarBringer · 04-27-2005, 12:10 AM

yes, but the catapults do not need to be aimed, as you wouldnt be aiming at a specific target, both rather a mass of horseman. And trust me, as one who has studied such matter extensively, it doesnt take many catapults firing once to cause a whole lot of damage on pretty much anything they aim at.

mormegil · 04-27-2005, 08:46 AM

I guess what I mean is that the catapult, in this case, would have been facing helms deep or Gondor, and the Rohirrim charged from the opposite way that they were facing. So they would quickly need to change direction and get some sort of accuracy to have any effect.

WarBringer · 04-27-2005, 09:36 AM

That is a good point, but with a few dozen Uruk-Hai to move one, it shouldn't be a problem. If the orcs could react very quickly, they could plant several spears in the ground in a line, and then pick off stragglers with bows, but they would need to react very quickly.

mormegil · 04-29-2005, 08:28 PM

Agreed. In theory it could pull off but as stated it would need to be quick and accurate but if they responded quickly they could pull it off. They off course would need to be well disciplined. Now I believe that Uruks are a more disciplined fighting unit than regular orcs so with those it could be possible, however with just orcs I don't see the strict regiment to accomplish the feat.

I don't think it's a sure fire method to halt the attack but yes if all those conditions were met than I could say that it could be rather effective to fire a catapult into the chargers.

Kath · 04-30-2005, 04:52 AM

The orcs might not have been as well regimented as the Uruk Hai but they were still well ordered with leaders and sub leaders (e.g. orc who looks like foam as main leader and then orc with two head that says "Catapaults!"). Also when the camera angle was from above you could see that they were arranged in pretty organised rows and columns. Then you have their secret attack on Osgiliath - all of which gives the impression that they could have developed a counter-attack against the Rohirrim without too much trouble.

I think the problem was the sunlight, the Uruk Hai should really have been able to withstand that as that was a mahor thing in their design, but the normal orcs have always avoided sunlight and so it is understandable that they were overwhelmed by it.

04-26-2005, 09:14 AM	#1
Bywaters Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tengiz, Kazahstan for 6 wks, then home for 2 wks. Blimey Posts: 47	http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...238721-8922813 The above is a link to most of the books in the Sharpe series. Sharpe's Eagle is a good one to start with as it was the first written (but not the first chronogically). I think a weapon such as a catapult could have been useful in disrupting the charges we see in the film. They would have to be very large and quick to reload to make a big difference though. I imagine that the horsemen would be able to see these weapons being fired and have time to react to them. It would however ruin the desired effect of the charge. __________________ ...I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh? insuperably wasted

04-26-2005, 01:46 PM	#2
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	IF, you were able to get the catapult aimed at the charge and it is on a narrow path/slope whatever, than it would definately disrupt the charge. I just don't see that happening very well though. Again the rate of fire would only allow one shot to be placed but if you could do it just right it would be great. Multiple catapults launched at a larged charge with multiple volleys of arrow would be a bit different but each catapult again would only get one shot and the aim would need to be on. Arrows aimed at horses would be your best quick defense which is obviously what the orcs needed in this situation. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

04-27-2005, 12:10 AM	#3
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	yes, but the catapults do not need to be aimed, as you wouldnt be aiming at a specific target, both rather a mass of horseman. And trust me, as one who has studied such matter extensively, it doesnt take many catapults firing once to cause a whole lot of damage on pretty much anything they aim at. __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

04-27-2005, 08:46 AM	#4
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I guess what I mean is that the catapult, in this case, would have been facing helms deep or Gondor, and the Rohirrim charged from the opposite way that they were facing. So they would quickly need to change direction and get some sort of accuracy to have any effect. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

04-27-2005, 09:36 AM	#5
WarBringer Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wandering The North Posts: 184	That is a good point, but with a few dozen Uruk-Hai to move one, it shouldn't be a problem. If the orcs could react very quickly, they could plant several spears in the ground in a line, and then pick off stragglers with bows, but they would need to react very quickly. __________________ Fortune Favors the Bold...

04-29-2005, 08:28 PM	#6
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Agreed. In theory it could pull off but as stated it would need to be quick and accurate but if they responded quickly they could pull it off. They off course would need to be well disciplined. Now I believe that Uruks are a more disciplined fighting unit than regular orcs so with those it could be possible, however with just orcs I don't see the strict regiment to accomplish the feat. I don't think it's a sure fire method to halt the attack but yes if all those conditions were met than I could say that it could be rather effective to fire a catapult into the chargers. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

04-30-2005, 04:52 AM	#7
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	The orcs might not have been as well regimented as the Uruk Hai but they were still well ordered with leaders and sub leaders (e.g. orc who looks like foam as main leader and then orc with two head that says "Catapaults!"). Also when the camera angle was from above you could see that they were arranged in pretty organised rows and columns. Then you have their secret attack on Osgiliath - all of which gives the impression that they could have developed a counter-attack against the Rohirrim without too much trouble. I think the problem was the sunlight, the Uruk Hai should really have been able to withstand that as that was a mahor thing in their design, but the normal orcs have always avoided sunlight and so it is understandable that they were overwhelmed by it. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”