Be LotR be an allegory fer fightin' Communism?

[eowyntje]

I find the theory represented in this topic not very likely. The idea that every race represents a country and the ring represents economic dominance seems unlikely to me.

However, there are a lot of things in the lord of the rings that could make you think that Tolkien was in some ways influenced by anti-communism or at least had kapitalist-sympaties.
A famous example is the group of orcs which captured Merry and Pippin, these were if I remmember correctly slit-eyed and comming from the east, which could be seen as a refference to the chinese.
Also the policies of Aragorn, in the story represented as the destend and perfect king, are quite kapitalistic and very militant. For example Aragorn tries to pursuade the more pacifistic Theoden who wants to flee to helms deep, to fight open war. Perhaps Tolkien found militant behaviour a good way to deal with the threath of war.
Then there is of course the fact that the perfect race, elves, were tall blond and blue eyed. And there are many more examples like this.

I'm not saying Tolkien was a racist or a kapitalist, I'm just saying the topic does need serious discussion.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by eowyntje

A famous example is the group of orcs which captured Merry and Pippin, these were if I remmember correctly slit-eyed and comming from the east, which could be seen as a refference to the chinese.
Also the policies of Aragorn, in the story represented as the destend and perfect king, are quite kapitalistic and very militant. For example Aragorn tries to pursuade the more pacifistic Theoden who wants to flee to helms deep, to fight open war. Perhaps Tolkien found militant behaviour a good way to deal with the threath of war.
Then there is of course the fact that the perfect race, elves, were tall blond and blue eyed. And there are many more examples like this.

I'm not saying Tolkien was a racist or a kapitalist, I'm just saying the topic does need serious discussion.

There are so many fallacies here...the point about the Orcs is simply absurd and contrived, the point about Aragorn and Theoden is only relevant with regard to the films, not the books. You might just as well say Tolkien was a racist for making Gothmog a pink orc.

And elves are not blonde and blue-eyed. Another filmic misconception. Only the Elves of the Vanyar and Finarfin's house (and, apparently, Thranduil) were blonde. The vast majority were dark. Almost all had grey eyes...

And Tolkien probably was a capitalist, as most men of his age and class were, to some degree; but he had an aesthetic distaste for capitalism, as you can see from his treatment of Saruman's capitalist schemes in Isengard and the Shire. This is why he has such a keen hippy following...

You have a point, Squidy, but please don't stereotype people.

I, for one, am my own person. There are others, too.

[eowyntje]

good points, I'm not saying tolkien was a racist and such, I'm just saying there are arguments for it, and they should not be overlooked as jokes.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by eowyntje

I'm not saying tolkien was a racist and such, I'm just saying there are arguments for it, and they should not be overlooked as jokes.

This is a subject that has been discussed a number of time previously. Here are some pertinent threads:

Racism and Tolkien
Are Tolkien Books racist?
Lord of the Rings labelled racist
Racism in LotR?
A Disturbing Development

[Evisse the Blue]

I do think however you got the last bit wrong, Squidy. JRRT was not a time traveller, but a psychic. Clairvoyant to be more precise. He also had the ability to communicate telepathically with other dimensions (parallel worlds) and saw the developments there, that were not unlike those about to happen in this world. He saw the similarities and he wrote them down in this clever fictional disguise. So we don't live in Tolkien's Middle Earth, but in a second version of that Middle Earth. This is why Tolkien disregarded the allegory idea. Because it's not about allegory, it's about alternate realities. Get it?
Where's the proof, you'll ask? Well, didn't he say he merely recorded all these things, not invented them? Sure, with all you nonbelievers out there, he had to take this back in an end, but I bet he was muttering under his breah 'e pur si muove'.

[Saurreg]

From an outsider's point of view (i.e. neither from the western or eastern orthodox civilizations) I tend to find the dividing the line between capitalism and stalinism into "us or them" or the "good vs evil" sides amusing.

I try not to stereotype but from my impression, people living between both sides of the iron curtain during the cold war years tend to be indoctrinated and influenced into thinking that the other side is really bad. They are exposed to so much propaganda that any little aspect which, resembles a characteristic (factual or not) of the other another side is automatically deemed associated with that other side. In short its allegorical inquisition gone amok (which, incidently is a Malay word).

It's easy to understand why such paranoia can exist during the heady years but for it to find expression now is trully incredible. Perhaps the deep fear and distain for "the other side" are so strong that it has become part of the antagonists' cultural identity.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes, but....what about The Lord of the Rings?

For my money, I'm going to be bold and say that the book is not such an allegory. The giveaway sign is in the names of the villains, Sauron and Saruman. If it was all about fighting communism then they would be called Commosticus and perhaps Marxavious.

Which makes me wonder......Saur, Sar.....what's it all about.....

Does HoME mention the significance of the names?

[eowyntje]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

This is a subject that has been discussed a number of time previously. Here are some pertinent threads:

Racism and Tolkien
Are Tolkien Books racist?
Lord of the Rings labelled racist
Racism in LotR?
A Disturbing Development

thanks you , I will have a look at those