Of Bombadillos and Balrogs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

GandaIf The White · 09-20-2001, 05:30 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 378</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: What utter tosh

Most think that he is an embodiment of Arda, created with or as part of The Flame Imperishable.. truly making him the eldest. That is personally what I think.

Have you ever pondered about what Tom said to the hobbits, even though they couldn't have known the depth of what he was saying. "He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless—before the Dark Lord (Melkor) came from Outside. (The Void)"

And I thought this was a good post by Salmar.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> There are some very conclusive arguments against Tom being a maia.
One of these is that his existence is bound to the Earth, which is symbolized by Tom being bound to a specific region.
As a maia he would have existed before and outside Arda. It is is clear that he did not, cannot and will not exist outside of Arda.

The most probable theory in my opinion is that Tom is a transmaterialization of the word Ea, the word with which Eru gave reality to the music of the Ainur. Maybe he has indeed some intrinsic relation to Eru's Flame Imperishable. The Flame is with Eru, but Tom's Realm is its reality in and on Earth.
Tom is not a creator like the Ainur, he is a creature. He symbolizes creation.
To the struggles of the powers, Ainur and Elves and Men, he is neutral as creation itself.
Nothing would tempt him to participate in these struggles or to travel beyond his realm. He does not strive, he just is....Tom. Quite intendedly left by Tolkien to be an enigma. Sure, we can discuss this enigma. But we should not want him to fit at all costs in our division of the powers into orderly categories.<hr></blockquote>

There are many possibilities, but no certainties. I guess some things are better left unexplained. <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

P.S. I am getting some of these words from another site, so I think it is appropriate to give a link to it out of respect. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thevalarguildclubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thevalarguild</a>

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000064>GandaIf The White</A> at: 9/20/01 7:32:45 pm

09-20-2001, 05:30 PM	#11
GandaIf The White Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 267	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 378</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: What utter tosh Most think that he is an embodiment of Arda, created with or as part of The Flame Imperishable.. truly making him the eldest. That is personally what I think. Have you ever pondered about what Tom said to the hobbits, even though they couldn't have known the depth of what he was saying. "He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless—before the Dark Lord (Melkor) came from Outside. (The Void)" And I thought this was a good post by Salmar. <blockquote>*Quote:<hr> There are some very conclusive arguments against Tom being a maia. One of these is that his existence is bound to the Earth, which is symbolized by Tom being bound to a specific region. As a maia he would have existed before and outside Arda. It is is clear that he did not, cannot and will not exist outside of Arda. The most probable theory in my opinion is that Tom is a transmaterialization of the word Ea, the word with which Eru gave reality to the music of the Ainur. Maybe he has indeed some intrinsic relation to Eru's Flame Imperishable. The Flame is with Eru, but Tom's Realm is its reality in and on Earth. Tom is not a creator like the Ainur, he is a creature. He symbolizes creation. To the struggles of the powers, Ainur and Elves and Men, he is neutral as creation itself. Nothing would tempt him to participate in these struggles or to travel beyond his realm. He does not strive, he just is....Tom. Quite intendedly left by Tolkien to be an enigma. Sure, we can discuss this enigma. But we should not want him to fit at all costs in our division of the powers into orderly categories.<hr></blockquote> There are many possibilities, but no certainties. I guess some things are better left unexplained. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> P.S. I am getting some of these words from another site, so I think it is appropriate to give a link to it out of respect. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thevalarguildclubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thevalarguild</a> "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000064>GandaIf The White</A> at: 9/20/01 7:32:45 pm*