Feanor's Wrath

[WarBringer]

Many believe that Feanor would have fought with Thingol, myself included. However, I do not believe that he would have hastened the defeat of the Noldor. I believe that he would have united and strengthened them as only he, the one who first drove them to Middle Earth, could do.

[Anguirel]

So you're saying, getting that nasty ol' Thingol out of the way would have been a blessing?

I must say, WarBringer, I'm extremely glad you weren't in command of the host of exiled Noldor! It would have been a black day for the poor old Sindar when you touched Middle-earth sand...

But I feel this argument is in the end fruitless. Feanor is to a great extent a model of the literary archetype of the doomed genius, the hopeless non-conformist. His Spirit of Fire could not have ruled and ordered, would not have been content with anything less than revenge. He had to go too far. You might say, that's partly what he's there for. I say this despite, nay because of, my admiration for him (one that Gandalf supports in LOTR). He was a peerless artist-the greatest. He was a magnificent orator-the greatest. In terms of warrior prowess, he wasn't far from the top. This led him, however, into hubris, and nemesis, sadly, was completely inevitable. Indeed, had Feanor lived and settled down to any degree, the story would be much less satisfying-to wit, an anticlimax.

[Saurreg]

I agree Anguirel.

It's a pity we are only acquainted with Feanor the Acerbic, Feanor the Dangerous, Feanor the Wrathful. I would suspect that had Tolkien wanted to, he could have made this passionate eldar the most life-like character in the books. We can only imagine what the "normal" Feanor could have been like - was he a loving husband? A nurturing father? A great builder and leader of his people - one that was beloved and trusted? And how about Feanor the scholar and lover of lores and literature?

For shame... For shame...

[Anguirel]

Exactly. And the closest we get to that is when Gandalf talks about "Feanor the Artist" in the Two Towers...

[WarBringer]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

So you're saying, getting that nasty ol' Thingol out of the way would have been a blessing?

I must say, WarBringer, I'm extremely glad you weren't in command of the host of exiled Noldor! It would have been a black day for the poor old Sindar when you touched Middle-earth sand...
.

Anguirel, if you can point out where I said "getting that nasty ol' Thingol out of the way would have been a blessing?", I will give you everything in my bank account. Understand that conflict does not mean utter defeat, or even necessarily physical conflict, or else the Noldor would have been defeated on the outset. I simply meant, quite rationally in my opinion, that It would be difficult for two elves of such might to coexist on Middle Earth. In a SEPARATE point, I do believe Feanor could have united the Noldor. Fingolfin was a strong ruler but himself diverted to Feanor while he lived, and yet Fingolfin is accounted among the great High Kings. Imagine Feanor as High King, of whom Fingolfin was but a sub ruler. Feanor, with his strength of will and cunning, would have united the Noldor before long, and would have contested Morgoth in Middle Earth.

In the future, I would ask that no one make rash inferences or jump to conclusion. Conflict does not mean "getting some one out of the way". Also notice that I never used the term "war", I said "fought". Not necessarily physically, in other words.

[Anguirel]

Sorry if I put words into your mouth, War Bringer...

However, I really don't see how you envisage Feanor and Fingolfin's reconciliation happening. Fingolfin has been led by Feanor into attacking the Teleri. He is the under the Doom of Mandos, due to Feanor. He does not even get a chance to sail on one of the captured ships, due to Feanor. Due to Feanor, he has to cross the Helcaraxe, where many, many of his host-including Turgon's wife, his innocent daughter-in-law, Elenwe-have lost their footing and been drowned.

"Small love" indeed he hath for Feanor. In fact, that's something of an understatement.

Feanor kindled the Noldor to war; but in peaceful ways was not so persuasive. The Teleri could not be urged by him to ferry his host, for example. In any case, Feanor was always bitter about the children of Indis, and may not have wanted to lower himself to negotiations. In other words, on Fingolfin's side those wanting revenge outnumber those wanting peace; on Feanor's side the host is gripped by its lord's fey defiance of any enemy.

This is potentially a terrible war-the Noldor could wipe each other out. Thingol would very likely help Fingolfin. In other words, Feanor is not a universally admired or accepted figure as Fingolfin becomes after Maedhros' abdication. Far from being conjoined, it would take a miracle to stop the hosts coming to blows.

[Saurreg]

Whether or not Fingolfin would actually attack Feanor is debatable. "To meet someone again" in this context does hold a notion to confront in arms. So when we read that Caesar desired to cross the Adratic as soon as possible to meet Pompey in Asia, it is logical to infer that the former wanted to engage the latter in pitched battle.

But given what we know of Fingolfin's nature and the way Tolkien depicts his "positive" characters, Fingolfin might be simply filled with a desire to accomplish the feat of travelling to Middle Earth even without ships nor Feanor himself. This can be interpreted as him facing an insurmountable challenge and rising to face it.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Saurreg

Whether or not Fingolfin would actually attack Feanor is debatable. "To meet someone again" in this context does hold a notion to confront in arms. So when we read that Caesar desired to cross the Adratic as soon as possible to meet Pompey in Asia, it is logical to infer that the former wanted to engage the latter in pitched battle.

But given what we know of Fingolfin's nature and the way Tolkien depicts his "positive" characters, Fingolfin might be simply filled with a desire to accomplish the feat of travelling to Middle Earth even without ships nor Feanor himself. This can be interpreted as him facing an insurmountable challenge and rising to face it.

True, I agree that Fingolfin would not attack Feanor. But, I also don't see them being on the best of terms. What seems more likely is that their meeting would be less than gracious and further strain the uneasy relationship between them. At any rate, it doesn't make Feanor a likely candidate to unify the Noldor.

[WarBringer]

Fingolfin readily allowed himself to be led by Feanor. I do not have the exact quote in front of me, but I believe he said something along the lines of "let no new grief divide, henceforth you lead and I will follow."

Not only that, I believe that many of you do not have a proper grasp of Feanor's personaility. Even those who dislike him (i.e. Galadriel) will follow him. He has power, both verbally and physically, and can inspire the best of the elves to rebel against the very gods. If that doesn't prove that he can unite the Noldor, then nothing will convince you.