Aragorn and Arwen: More than kissing?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I want to stick up for Heren Istarion's story. It's such lovely fanfiction! So I'll point out that it's standard in literature, and chivalric tradition, and much of the history of sexual interaction, for men to be lovers at a stage in their career before they become fighters.

I have Tolkien on my side, in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen".

Aha!!

The primary reason, right there, that I do not find Heren's theory totally convincing. You DON'T have Tolkien on your side. Whatever PJ may have intended in the movies, I think it should be clear that TOLKIEN, in his own mind if never explicitly stated in the books, saw Aragorn and Arwen as waiting for marriage. Now, this doesn't necessarily affect Arvedui's story. After all, just because Aragorn is noble doesn't mean his great-manys-grandfather was. However, Tolkien (the man, if not necessarily the book) is NOT on your side.

As for your suggestion that Aragorn was more needed in Arnor than Arvedui had been, I doubt it. The Dunedain of the North had been led by somebody other than Aragorn during all the long years that he was growing up in Rivendell. Furthermore, Arvedui was a prince (and if he was in a Boromir-like situation as I imagine, then he was also a major captain as well) at a time when Angmar was a very dangerous threat to Arthedain's survival. Whereas in Aragorn's day, the danger was to Gondor, from Mordor.

Plainly not the same.

Resting my case for the moment,

Formendacil

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The Book:

I never in my wildest dreams imagined that Aragorn and Arwen had anything going on apart from stolen kisses and handholding. Tolkien was too much of a prude (by today's standards, of course ) for that sort of thing. In all seriousness, it would have taken so much away from the high tragedy.

Aragorn and Arwen were very much the proper noble couple. Sure they loved each other with all the depths of the deepest oceans and all that poetic nonsense, but Arwen loved her father also, and respected him. If Elrond said that they couldn't get married until Aragorn proved himself, then the two would understand that the physical aspect of their romance was on hiatus until the world was a safer place. Honestly, that makes it so much more important for the good guys to win, because then our hero (Aragorn) gets his heart's desire (Arwen), and you know that the entire romance was pure, noble, honorable, loving, and above all, deserved.

Never went through my head that they might have been engaging in hanky panky in some private cluster of trees somewhere. That's just so... common. It takes away from the idea that they are above us, and truly noble. There is, of course, noble in birth, and noble in deed. These two are supposed to be both.

----------------------

The Movie:

A translucent silk nightie? Very pretty, very delicate, and above all, very revealing. I never would have put an Elf in something like that. I'd put a woman who's been married a grand total of three weeks to the man of her dreams in something like that.

When I first saw the dream scene, I think I looked something like this:

But then it ran through my head that this was Aragorn's dream. Subconscious thought. Of course he's going to be dreaming that he's with his true love, in a place with no danger, where they can simply be together.

But at the same time, I was still shocked by the whole kissing-while-prone thing. Reminds me of the talks that I and seven other teenage girls have at the lunch table (actually, I'm usually concentrating on eating quickly so I can get back to whatever project I'm working on, but that's another story). You know the "...and then his mother walked in!" type stories. It's so... not... tragic.

Yes, she's telling him not to give up hope. Yes, he's feeling hopeless and his true love encourages him. But did they really have to make out to get the point across? I suppose that they wanted to show the audience that even though he kept giving Eowyn meaningful looks (and yes, tp, I agree with you about those), that his heart and thoughts belonged to Arwen.

But really... an almost see-through night gown while he's comfortably lying in her personal chambers? If Galadriel had seen that thought I bet Aragorn would have blushed.

[Anguirel]

Quite, Fea! "No Elessar for you, naughty boy..."

Formendacil, all I mean by quoting the Tale is that Aragorn fell in love with Arwen before he departed for Gondor to become a soldier-reinforcing the love first, war later, point. Also, Gondor was quite as threatened by the Wainriders as Arthedain was by Angmar. The only difference was that Earnil was a great general and Arvedui an indifferent one (not to mention possessing a really depressing, morale lowering name...)

[HerenIstarion]

It's merely a speculation!

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

I acknowledge high probability of the dates being merely mixed up

See?

and if he was in a Boromir-like situation as I imagine, then he was also a major captain as well

You bring your own evil with you to Lorien. Major captain as he was, Boromir was actually sent to Imladris. Speculating, as it were, about political reasons of Arvedui serving in Gondor, I don't see barriers for him being sent away.

...Arvedui an indifferent one...

Would not bet my money on that. Circumstances being what they were, he was an unlucky one, true...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

Major captain as he was, Boromir was actually sent to Imladris.

Some might argue that it was Faramir who was sent and Boromir who went.... sorry OT.....

[Eruanna]

Originally posted by Feanor:
But then it ran through my head that this was Aragorn's dream. Subconscious thought. Of course he's going to be dreaming that he's with his true love, in a place with no danger, where they can simply be together.

I saw it more as a memory. Hence my unease at the 'sexing up' of the romance.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Or a hallucination.