Elven Technology - how did they do it? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legolas · 05-22-2005, 11:02 PM

Apparently he was just a ship builder, and some elves of his settling mined the sea for pearls, since he gave some to Thingol who passed them on to the Dwarves of Belegost. There are numerous mentions of Cirdan and his people building ships throughout the War of the Jewels.

The Silmarillion:

Quote:

But the realm of Nargothrond extended also west of Narog to the River Nenning, that reached the sea at Eglarest; and Finrod became the overlord of all the Elves of Beleriand between Sirion and the sea, save only in the Falas. There dwelt those of the Sindar who still loved ships, and Círdan the shipbuilder was their lord; but between Círdan and Finrod there was friendship and alliance, and with the aid of the Noldor the havens of Brithombar and Eglarest were built anew.

Quote:

For Melian taught them much that they were eager to learn, and Thingol rewarded them with many fair pearls. These Círdan gave to him, for they were got in great number in the shallow waters about the Isle of Balar; but the Naugrim had not before seen their like, and they held them dear. One there was as great as a dove's egg, and its sheen was as starlight on the foam of the sea; Nimphelos it was named, and the chieftain of the Dwarves of Belegost prized it above a mountain of wealth.

Bêthberry · 05-23-2005, 07:17 AM

Thanks for the quotes, Legolas. I knew those from The Silm, but had forgotten about the pearls. I just wondered if anything in HoME addressed what the ships were like. There's the description of Galadriel's ship in Lothlorien but I couldn't remember anything about the ships that were used to sail west.

Viking-style? Roman galleys? I can't see elves building ships that needed slave rowers, of course. Three masters? Maybe it is simply a reference similar to being a tent-maker or a carpenter, something to establish a trade and vocation that isn't lordly but essential.

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-23-2005, 09:48 AM

I don't know if there are written descriptions of Elven ships, aside from those of Galadriel and Celeborn, but I have one of Tolkien's own paintings which shows one in the book J. R. R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator. The watercolour is called Halls of Manwë (Taniquetil) and in the foreground a swan-shaped ship with one sail and four sets of oars can be seen. I shall attempt to find a copy of the painting online and edit this post to include the link if I do.

Link: Book with painting

***Mister Underhill*** · 06-01-2005, 12:41 PM

Here's a detail of the ship:

Bêthberry · 06-03-2005, 11:37 AM

Thanks, Esty and Mr.U for the link and the picture. I can't see those daring the "Atlantic" but then apparently the mad Celts sailed west in little corrigals. (And I will use sp? for corrigal as various versions of it canna be found in any online dictionary, nor my handy one, and I can't lug out my OED at the moment. so there

)

The Vikings used a really neat way of slightly overlaping their timbers to improve the water-worthiness of their boats and so I wondered if Tolkien would be precisely detailed enough to work that in.

Formendacil · 06-03-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

(And I will use sp? for corrigal as various versions of it canna be found in any online dictionary, nor my handy one, and I can't lug out my OED at the moment. so there

)

Coracle, perchance?

Bêthberry · 06-03-2005, 12:22 PM

Can I bookmark you, Formendacil?

Thanks.

05-23-2005, 07:17 AM	#2
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Thanks for the quotes, Legolas. I knew those from The Silm, but had forgotten about the pearls. I just wondered if anything in HoME addressed what the ships were like. There's the description of Galadriel's ship in Lothlorien but I couldn't remember anything about the ships that were used to sail west. Viking-style? Roman galleys? I can't see elves building ships that needed slave rowers, of course. Three masters? Maybe it is simply a reference similar to being a tent-maker or a carpenter, something to establish a trade and vocation that isn't lordly but essential. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-23-2005, 09:48 AM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I don't know if there are written descriptions of Elven ships, aside from those of Galadriel and Celeborn, but I have one of Tolkien's own paintings which shows one in the book J. R. R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator. The watercolour is called Halls of Manwë (Taniquetil) and in the foreground a swan-shaped ship with one sail and four sets of oars can be seen. I shall attempt to find a copy of the painting online and edit this post to include the link if I do. Link: Book with painting __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' Last edited by Estelyn Telcontar; 05-23-2005 at 10:14 AM.

06-01-2005, 12:41 PM	#4
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	Here's a detail of the ship:

06-03-2005, 11:37 AM	#5
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Thanks, Esty and Mr.U for the link and the picture. I can't see those daring the "Atlantic" but then apparently the mad Celts sailed west in little corrigals. (And I will use sp? for corrigal as various versions of it canna be found in any online dictionary, nor my handy one, and I can't lug out my OED at the moment. so there ) The Vikings used a really neat way of slightly overlaping their timbers to improve the water-worthiness of their boats and so I wondered if Tolkien would be precisely detailed enough to work that in.

06-03-2005, 12:22 PM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Can I bookmark you, Formendacil? Thanks.