The Fall of the North Planning/Discussion Thread

[Osse]

Well, Saurreg and myself just saw the little problem that is the Ladies Lissi and Renedwen being in two places at once.

We're endeavouring to fix it.

Nuranar... Carthor and the men that rushed towards the scream, were some of those already in the storeroom, and a couple from outside where the rest of the civilians/soldiery were still standing - outiside in the corridor to the right of the door.

Carthor rushed towards the scream, running down around a slight bend, and down towards the fork in the corridors into which Renedwen wanders, just far enough away that they could not see the glow of the other's lights, I mean it's a pretty large party for such a small space, but still.

Carthor finds them going back, and his group of say four soldiers, and two civilians meet up with Lissi and Renedwen as they hobble back. Then it gets interesting...

Carthor takes a wrong turn, into a corridor that runs more or less the same way they have came, one they didn't see on the fast run in, but actually seems like the major route when you come to it. So, the group walks down it...

But it's not straight, far from it, and curves back around towards the storeroom, being one of many streets that leads to it... they come in towards the room from a long way off, in a curve - up behind the trolls, and now on the wrong side of Belegorn's fire wall. So... seven men and two women are trapped with who-knows-how-many trolls...


Does that make sense?


P.S I can change the whole scenario if it suits you all better!

Regards, Osse

[Saurreg]

Good ideas Osse.

Dear all, may I offer this alternative:

1. Renedwen(?) missed the rest of the refugees and veered of into a tunnel where she got caught in the arachnid's webs and screamed really.

2. Lissi went to look for Renedwen with Brander and succeeded. HOWEVER the five of them (including the two children) kinda went off in the wrong direction, i.e. no longer back to the main corridor on their way back.

3. Carthor, scout D and the rest of his men find the five refugees but then the ENTIRE troupe entered ANOTHER wrong passage and they all end up behind the trolls.

4. Mean while the rest of the adventurers (Belegron, Erenor, Angore, Faerim etc) heard the screams and also the sound of drums. They were somewhere ahead of the main body.

5. Erenor and Faerim manage to slay the arachnid close to the vicinity where Renedwen got stuck but the two creature slayers did not make the same mistake as the Dunadains and get themselves lost.

6. Belegorn presumed that Carthor was somewhere near the arachnid's lair looking for the two women and their little tikes but has no idea that they were already behind the trolls.

This would involve lotsa re-editing on everybody's part. But If you, Nuranar would want to claim the right of first post and not want to revise the scenario you set, then let Osse and I know ASAP and do, PLEASE DO give us some suggestions on how we can resolve this confusion.

Peace.

P.S: Kransha, if you're reading, we need your arbitration quick!

[Saurreg]

Of numbers.

Originally Posted by Nuranar

And thanks for the answers, Kransha. So, there's around 100 military types, around 50 king-civilians, and, say, 75 plain civilians? I can work with that.

Nuranar, this is the number that left fornost. After the engagement with the orcs, I would say that only about 50 or so guardsmen and the king's own guards remained.

When the refugees first arrived in the Dwarven halls, the King ordered the refugees to divide themselves into groups of ten or twenties.

However I don't think Belegorn or Hirvegil would have approved of the king's plan. I assume that depsite his own words, the king's entourage would comprise of the antire 50ish aristocrats, nobles and members of his household together with the entire company of King's bodybody guards. That would easily number over seventy.

With the King's guards gone, what's left would be at the most twenty over guardsmen and the 75 plain civilians (how did you get this number anyway?). To parcel out the 75 with their respective escorts out into groups of at most twenty would dilute the guardsmen's ability to maintain security and lead too greatly, therefore I should think Belegorn only divided the guardsmen and refugees into halves. And because he was ordered by Mellonar to command one column together with carthor in it, it was only logical to assume that the "leaderless" group was assigned with more men to compensate. That would mean that Belegorn's group would have only about ten men or so (he was counting on the elves for their support also).

Carthor took Scout D and a couple of men along (say six) and that left the group with about four left. The remaining followed belegorn around and hence the column was more or less, hehe unguarded!

[Nuranar]

From page 2 of the discussion:

In reference to Saurreg's comment that only 100 of the Rearguard are left:

Originally Posted by Nuranar

Point of information: If there's only about 100 fighting men left, how many civilians are there? And how many of these are councillors/courtiers/something to do with government?

Originally Posted by Kransha

There are more civilians than soldiers, but not much. The exact number is up to you or anyone else who cares to throw a number about, as long as its not too many (remember, a lot of the poorer civilians lived in the outermost sanctum of Fornost, which was completely destroyed, and many in the second level were slain. All courtiers and ministers save a few survived, though. There are probably 50 people who have ties to the King (courtiers, etc), but that's not definitive.

Originally Posted by Nuranar

And thanks for the answers, Kransha. So, there's around 100 military types, around 50 king-civilians, and, say, 75 plain civilians? I can work with that.

Those numbers for the civilians were estimates to help me in visualizing the situation. I reach them by a sort of mental algebra:

1. Kransha said there are more civilians than soldiers. Thus the Number of Civilians (X) must be greater than 100. So X > 100.
2. 50 out of the X are courtiers and so forth. Logically, the ordinary civilians would outnumber those. So the Number of Ordinary Civilians (X-50) > 50.
3. I arbitrarily chose (X-50) = 75. Therefore X = 125. (X-5) is significantly larger than the number of courtiers, and X is larger than the number of soldiers. Therefore X, total civilians, outnumber the soldiers, but not by much, as Kransha stipulated.

Keep in mind, these are round numbers - approximations only.

If we take Saurreg's estimate of only 50 soldiers left after the orc-fight, we're down to a total of 175 people, with the civilians now forming more than 70% of that. However, that's not calculating any civilian deaths along the way. Illness, poor and diminishing food, harsh weather, continuous travel and exertion, and accidents, just to name a few, should have killed a number of civilians - particularly young children, the weak/sick, wounded, &c. The cumulative nature of most of these factors will mean that more are likely to die. ALSO, these are far more likely to be plain civilians than courtiers. After a little consideration, I'd say we'll have lost a good 10-20 civilians, only a couple of them courtiers. This could easily be more, if accounted for by an outbreak of a specific illness. By specific, I mean something contagious and exacerbated by cold and weakness (influenza??), instead of simply lots of pneumonia.

How's that for trivializing the momentous and complicating the obvious?

[Kransha]

Nuranar, it seems to me that you must have a Ph.D in trivializing the momentous and complicating the obvious - you're very good at it. Of course, under these circumstances, such talent is a good thing.

Humbly, I step out of numerical controversy, Nuranar, Saurreg, and Osse seem to be handling the organization of the matter better than I ever could. Obviously the level of organization:disorganization is what is necessary, and confusion in the caverns is a must. Perhaps the real life confusion can be drawn upon to aid character confusion, but I digress. Soon enough, another series of entities altogether will arrive and [attempt to] set things straight. Dwarves are notoriously geometric, but centuries of isolation has left them a little loopy, so the Dunedain/Elves might do best to sort matters of combat and order out before the Dwarves arrive and upset the best laid plans of mice and men...not that John Stienbeck knew anything about crazy Dwarves.

I won't, however, intrude directly. The Dwarves are meant to be a bit of deus ex machina (yes, I am using unecessarily complicated explanations; so?) but not save the day. Their armor isn't shiny enough to do the job in proper fashion anyway. It does stand to reason that the Dunedain/Elves will not be able to take out all the trolls, but they can do what they can do. I'm not going to dictate what must happen in this encounter, even though I am going to plop my newly introduced dwatves into the picture in a few days, if possible.

[Nuranar]

Osse, I understand your explanation. Actually, a windy (that's WINE-dy) tunnel is the only mechanism I could come up with to explain how they bump into trolls, so that works fine. By the way, though, that'll be 7 men, 2 women, 1 boy (Brander), and the two little boys. It's unavoidable, since Renedwen has her son and I explicitly wrote Brander and Gilly into my post.

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Saurreg, I'm not sure I fully understand your proposal, but I think I get the gist of it. I think the simplest approach would be for you to modify this part of your post:

“I do not think so Lieutenant,” She replied as-a-matter-of-factly, “Neither Faerim nor I, or the rest of your people were harmed bodily. But this expired denizen of the dark might have caused some, unbearable mental anguish…”

Belegorn frowned, perplexed by the words of the sphinx. He was in no mood for word games and was about to question her again, when she pointed towards his back. Belegorn turned his head and saw two women huddled together with the rest of the refugees – Belegorn has ran pass them without noticing. The taller one was strikingly stunning but her face was drained of color and ghostly pale, her doe-like eyes were wide with fear and her delicate lips were trembling. The other woman was holding on to her and whispering constantly to the former; reassuring her no doubt, thought Belegorn.

Belegorn nodded in relief but the tense look did not leave his grave face. He turned back towards Erenor and Faerim, and resumed, “It is agreeable that no one is hurt. But we have other pressing issues at hand.”

Just to keep the women, Brander, and Gilly, out of it. Instead, perhaps Erenor can point out the cut web; it would be clear that someone had been there. Since the group's spread out, there's no way to know which one of them had done it.

The refugees you mention are the rest of Carthor's party, the ones who stayed at the storeroom. Because of the disorganization and confusion (And don't forget the darkness!) it makes sense for Belegorn not to realize that Carthor isn't where he should be. That leaves Belegorn's orders for Faerim, to lead the refugees and look for his father, perfectly reasonable.

The screams that sends Faerim and Erenor into action can perhaps be some of the refguees, frightened of the troll-sounds. Even though they probably don't know that they ARE trolls, they're perfectly capable of imagining terrifying monsters hiding in the shadows.

I hope I'm not missing anything... If not, I think that should resolve our confusion and will involve only one modification.

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So, we have this marching order at the beginning:

<-- [Elves, Faerim] <-- [Belegorn] <-- [Carthor]

And try this proposed new outline:

1. Most of Carthor's group stops to investigate a storeroom. Renedwen gets caught and rescued by Lissi. On their way back they meet up with Carthor and six men from his group. They head back to the rest of the group, which includes most of the civilian refugees, back at the storeroom.
2. The Elves and Faerim are well in front, and start back when they hear Renedwen and troll drums. They meet up with Belegorn's group. More screams are heard, and Faerim is jumped by a spider when he heads back.
3. Carthor, Lissi, Renedwen, the three boys, and the six men take the wrong turning on their way back to the storeroom. This wrong turn loops around and instead of taking them BACK, takes them FORWARD. Their lights go out and they run into the trolls.
4. The remainder of Carthor's group, mainly civilians, presumably wanders from the storeroom in a forward direction.
5. Erenor and Faerim kill the spider and are joined by Angóre, Belegorn, and the rest of the soldiers. The rest of the refugees are in sight, further back down the main tunnel. Belegorn orders Faerim to lead the women and the rest of the refugees into a side tunnel. Belegorn heads waaaay back up the tunnel, past the spider turn-off, lights a flaming barricade, and heads up another turnoff to divert the advancing trolls.

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Originally Posted by Osse

they come in towards the room from a long way off, in a curve - up behind the trolls, and now on the wrong side of Belegorn's fire wall. So... seven men and two women are trapped with who-knows-how-many trolls...

But in order for them to run into the trolls, the mistake tunnel must JOIN the main tunnel, forward of the spider turnoff and even farther forward of the storeroom. Since Carthor orders a retreat, that will send them BACK down the mistake tunnel - With troll pursuit? - and re-enter the main tunnel on the RIGHT side of the fire wall. So they shouldn't ever enter the main tunnel at all, and Belegorn will still be alone. Osse, if you want them to be trapped with Belegorn, I've a couple suggestions:

1. The mistake tunnel can join the main tunnel at a different angle, so when the group keep going in what seems to them the same direction, they're actually heading BACK up the main tunnel. Then they can come upon the trolls from the back. The retreat will send them once more FORWARD up the main tunnel, where even the vanguard haven't yet come up.
2. Specify that they enter into another, probably larger tunnel. If they keep going in the same direction, they will be going FORWARD, and can meet the trolls head-on. Thus, when Carthor orders the retreat, they'll go BACK up the tunnel, almost certainly missing the join with the mistake tunnel, and they'll eventually run into Belegorn's fire wall.

But probably you have a better idea.

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As far as the numbers go, Saurreg addresses the configuration of the groups pretty well. If you incorporate my suggestions about civilian casualties, and subtract the king's group as Saurreg proposes (all 45-50 courtiers and 20 soldiers [Surely even the king wouldn't take 30 of 50?]), we are left with these ROUGH estimates:

• 30 soldiers
• 60 civilians

Now, that's 90 people; divide into groups of 20, and you have 4.5 groups. Let's make that 4 groups with about 22 people each. If we maintain the soldier/civilian ratio, that will be about 7 soldiers for every 14 civilians. To my mind, that's still a very reasonable protector/protected ratio.

Or, if y'all prefer Belegorn to form only 2 groups: 90 people divides into 2 groups of 45 each. If they're identical groups, each will have 15 soldiers for 30 civilians. But one group will have both Belegorn and Carthor; to compensate the other group, which lacks a [named] leader, it will have more soldiers than the first. So let's say the first will have 10 soldiers and 35 civilians. The second will have 20 soldiers and 25 civilians.

Now to figure in our characters. Assuming "soldier" is used of the generic fighter, and not of our characters, we have among us 12 civilians: Belegorn, Carthor, Lissi, Faerim, Brander, Renedwen, son (sorry, I can't remember his name), Gilly, Erenor, Angóre, Bethiril, and Ereglin.

1. 7 soldiers/14 civilians - Remainder: 7 soldiers and 2 other civilians. In that case it would be perfectly reasonable for Lissi and Renedwen to be the only women in the group.
2. 10 soldiers/35 civilians - Remainder: 10 soldiers and 23 other civilians. There will likely be other women and children in that case.

Either way, our free soldiers are very few. In Option 2, if Carthor took 4 with him, that leaves a total of 6. Belegorn can scarcely have fewer than 5 with him. In that case, the rest of Carthor's group, at the rear of the line, will have 23 unprotected civilians. In Option 1, Belegorn will have only 3 men total - but there will only be two civilians left, with Carthor and his people missing.

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My Opinion as Far as Numbers Go

(I know, most of the numbers above are my opinions as well. Stay with me here.)

The ratio of soldier/civilian is going to stay the same, no matter how the groups are divided up. I think 1/2 is a decent proportion; not as great as it was after they left Fornost, of course, but it's not unreasonable. Thus I think group configuration depends more on size for safety, unity, and effectiveness.

I think that the small groups of 22 are quite small. If they run into any threat, 7 or 8 soldiers aren't going to go very far, regardless of how many they need to protect. For that matter, 10 soldiers are very few as well. If they have to protect 35 instead of 14, though, they're going to be stretched in-cred-i-bly thin.

In an underground maze like this, smaller groups are better for going unnoticed. Larger groups are better for more thorough investigation and for safety. I think their chances of being unnoticed are minute anyway - you can't expect civilians to not make noise - but at the same time, large groups are very unwieldy. Look what happened to us - we're all writing the thing and still we can't figure where everyone has gone! These tunnels are narrow; 45 people are going to stretch out a long way. You lose most of the advantage of size when you're liable to being chopped up into bits like that.

Now, as far as the other group(s) being leaderless: As I understand it, these soldiers are Rearguardsmen, experienced career soldiers. And they're good - they wouldn't have survived this long if they weren't. Even though none of them have been named, I would think that there are still other officers among them; even if not, all Belegorn needs to do is appoint a leader or two. (He ought to know his men well enough to do that, I think.) The point is that they'll do fine without being compensated by so many extra.

So I propose 3 groups with equivalent configuration: 3 groups of 30, 10 soldiers to 20 civilians. Subtract our 12 characters, and we're left with 8 unnamed civilians. 30 people is definitely on the small side, but it ought to be easier to supervise, and it's large enough for reasonable defense if attacked.

Without all the fancy calculations, it still comes down that we need a rough idea of how many soldiers and how many civilians are in this group with us. I suggest 30 total, with 10 soldiers, first because I think it's reasonable when the calculations are made, but second because it's still a good number for this sort of expedition. If I were to pick a number out of the air, I think 30 would still be a good number.

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I think I need to stop now. This puts my previous efforts to shame!

Originally Posted by Kransha

Obviously the level of organization:disorganization is what is necessary, and confusion in the caverns is a must. Perhaps the real life confusion can be drawn upon to aid character confusion, but I digress.

Yes, I thought it ironic how hard we're working to straighten out confusion when confusion in the tunnels is really what we want. Still, I think there's a big difference between chronological and spatial confusion and character and situational confusion! I used to point out to my brothers that, as in the case of Lou Costello, it takes someone really smart to pretend to be stupid and make it both good and funny. I think this is a parallel situation: We want confusion, but we want the characters to be confused. We don't want the reader to be confused when characters jump around in time and space without explanation! I think a bit of order behind the scenes helps to create apparent disorder on the stage.

Osse and Saurreg, I've addressed several specific questions/issues to you, and I'd appreciate your input. And everyone else, please share your opinions, especially about numbers! I'm just trying to help.

[Saurreg]

I like the suggestions stated and have edited my save according.

The context of the post still stays but Lissi, Renedwen, Brander and the two tots are no longer mentioned. Infact Belegorn now does not know who the victim/s is/are.

[Osse]

I was under the impression that Belegorn made his firewall in the main tunnel, that Carthor's small, lost group were turning into... that would make more sense as the trolls are being stopped from going further up this main route - stopped from heading towards the main body of refugees.

I will reread everyone's posts and try to get mine to conform, without changing the fact that Carthor, two women and three children are all stuck with some trolls.

[Saurreg]

Hehe Firewall, good one. Perhaps the incendiary was prepared by a chemist of the Norton? Hehehe.

Osse, you are right. The firewall was created in the main corridor to seperate the majority of the refugees from the trolls. At this point of time Belegorn had no idea that by creating this barrier, he had not only sealed himself and the trolls on one side, but Carthor and company also.

Hope that helps.

[Osse]

Trying the stop the trolls from hacking their way through... harf harf.

Just finished re-reading/ rewriting... i don't think there is anything that clashes anymore... i have put a little bit in about Brander and the boys though.

[Nuranar]

Nice editing, both of you - thanks!

However, I'm still not sure that we're communicating about the situation with Carthor's group and the trolls. Maybe a sketch would help:


.................................................. ........Belegorn waiting in turnoff tunnel...
.........spider tunnel..........................................|. ...................................
................|................................. ..................|............................... .......
................|................................. ..................|............................... ........
................|.....................firewall.... .................|.......A.........B..........C... ....
=======================|===================*=====* =====*===
.....|............................................ ......................................|........... ........
.....|............................................ ......................................|........... ........
......\___________________________________________ _______/...................
..................Carthor's mistake tunnel............................................ .........

== Main tunnel
__ Turnoff tunnel
The main body of refugees, the Elves, Faerim, and soldiers are in the main tunnel to the left, off the map.

My question is, Where are the trolls when Carthor re-enters the main tunnel?
If they're at point A, Carthor is behind them and they're between him and Belegorn.
If they're at point B, Carthor runs into them right when he reaches the main tunnel.
If they're at point C, Carthor meets them head-on.

This is very important because it determines the direction of Carthor's retreat.
A: Carthor retreats forward up the main tunnel (toward points B and C). It should be easy to miss the tunoff back into the mistake tunnel, but it's possible he'll find it.
B: Carthor retreats back up the mistake tunnel and never really re-enters the main tunnel at all.
C: Carthor retreats back up the main tunnel toward Belegorn and the firewall, either missing or re-finding the entrance to the mistake tunnel.

The mistake tunnel bypasses the fire wall. If Carthor's retreat leads him back up the mistake tunnel, the trolls will likely follow him. They will detour around Belegorn and the fire wall without even knowing that they're there. AND they will reenter the main tunnel very close to the main body of refugees.

Do you see my concern? For the story, it's OK not to explain the full situation like that; the people are supposed to be confused themselves. But we need to know where they're going. My post will involve the retreat, but I need to know if we'll run into the firewall or go off in other directions.

[Osse]

Lock in 'A'

[Nuranar]

Then which tunnel will the retreat take? Will they veer off into the mistake tunnel again, or keep to the main tunnel?

[Osse]

Carthor hasn't quite entered the main tunnel when he hits the troll, who is standing looking away from him in the tunnel mouth... quite a way from the about-to-be-lit firewall. The others should retreat up the way they had come, seeing as they haven't left the corridor yet...

[Saurreg]

I thank you for your diligence Nuranar. Good diagram.

As you have most probably figured out, my intentions to create a noisy diversion when the trolls close and lead them of into the turnoff tunnel.

As for Carthor and company they should have the following choices (more than those I supposed)

I. They realize that they have entered the wrong section of the main tunnel and hence retrace their route through the detour tunnel.

2. They continue their way into the main tunnel but to avoid the trolls which are still heading towards the left of the diagram, Carthor and company go right; which is further dwon the original plan of movement.

3. If Belegorn succeeds in attracting the trolls attention and leads them into the turnoff tunnel, Cathor might hear him and decide to whether to aid the lieutenant or not. The first choice would result in a battle of course.

We should consider what Novnarwen has in mind also since those are her/his trolls. S/he can play along with what we have in mind or just to spice things up, s/he could throw a curved ball and have us all reacting to a new twist instead.

[Osse]

Seeing as Carthor is currently six feet off the ground in the hand of a troll, I think he'll have to fight this one out.

As for what Brander, Lissi and Renedwen do... that's up to them.

A couple of the soldiers that Carthor has with him won't be running of course, not when their mate is in the hot stuff.

I guess until the trolls start their bit, we don't know how many there are, or where in the column the one Carthor ran into is...

I await your post with increasing anticipation Novnarwen!

[Saurreg]

I have reread your edited post again Osse.

Looks like Carthor has become the unwitting diversion instead of belegorn!

Yes, we shall see what Novnarwen has up her/his sleeves.

Novnarwen - No rush! Take your time to post. Hope you don't feel pressured.

[Osse]

It's been 9 days without any hint of further action y'all... anyone out there?

[Mithalwen]

Er I am here... just confused about wheter we had decided where everyone was....of course I could be vague as to location and start to carve up a random troll.. following Pio's helpful hints.....

[Novnarwen]

I'm really sorry for not posting. I've been really busy with school. In addition to that, I must admit that I'm quite confused.

Where are my trolls? A, B or C?

Anyway, this weekend will be very busy, and I dare not promise you that I'll be able to post. I'll probably be able to check up on this thread, but a post will have to wait to Monday.

Sorry,
Nova

Saurreg: She..

[Garen LiLorian]

I, also, am here. Though a bit confused and hoping that one of the other people with Angore (Mith or Aman) wouldn't mind posting first

[Mithalwen]

Ok I will post a troll hunter post later today ...probably best if it isn't the one that has grabbed osse until the location is decided?

And where Erenor goes Angore is bound to follow...

[Mithalwen]

Sorry missed full implications of Saureg's post for me... willpost tomorrow Ihope

[Mithalwen]

Stymied - I was planning a little troll fighting with Angore and Faerim but now I'm lumbered with all the refugees I can't .. vain heroics is actually Erenor's best hope :S

[Osse]

i Have prepared a little map to show what the corridors look like.

I have also put in the people, as far as i know where they are. Sorry, I couldn't work out where the Elves and Faerim were, but I'm sure someone will show me.

EDIT: someone tell me how to put images into posts and I'll have it up!

[Saurreg]

Get an image hosting account. Upload from yer hard drive and then linky with the image command.

[Osse]

Too much effot perhaps...

If you guys are really unsure and need a map, give me a PM and i'll email it to you or something.

[Garen LiLorian]

Well, I believe our two weeks without a post has passed. Does that mean we're officially dead? You know, more so then usual for the barrow wights we are.

[Mithalwen]

I am sorry I am just so confused that I cannot see a way through - and in tunnels you have limited options...however I turned down another invitation because of this - I don't like leaving things unfinished butI don't see a way ahead.. I just wanted ot go troll fighting but I don't know how I can ditch the Dunedain at this moment..... :S

[piosenniel]

Since Kransha has introduced the Dwarves at this point - what if someone simply writes a wrap up post for the confusing Troll episode (I have to admit I was lost reading where everyone was and what was happening.)

The Dwarves know the men and Elves are in danger from the Trolls. In the midst of battle, have the Dwarven contingent move in and assist to drive the trolls off. Everyone can then regather at the base camp. Use Kransha's dwarves as needed.

Does this sound doable?

~*~ Pio

[Osse]

It does.

Who wants to write it? I'd rather just write a supporting post... about Carthor fighting trolls.

[Mithalwen]

I'll have a shot if noone beats me to it... try to post something tomorrow pm (uk time) ... just off for a girly night out so anything sooner is unrealistic...

[piosenniel]

Mithalwen and ALL OTHERS still playing in the RPG -

Saurreg PM'd me about doing the wrap-up for the trolls and dwarves. Can you coordinate with him?

Once you all are done with this section of the action, it can be up for general review where you want the game to go next. The game owner has not checked into the game or discussion thread since the first of May, so it is up to the interested players where they want to take the game.

~*~ Pio

[Amanaduial the archer]

I'm sorry, I am still interested, of course - just totally mystified really. I was planning to follow up on Saurreg's post, but Saurreg had plans already, so I was just....really stuck. What with GCSE revision, I haven't had as much block time as I would like...

Sorry. I just wasn't sure how/where to proceed with Faerim. Saurreg, may I ask about your intentions for Belegorn? That would seem to be the best lead for Faerim at the moment - as I am rather confused, I think it would only muddy things further if I way to do a 'finishing up' post but, like Osse, I would quite like to put in a supporting post, but I'll wait for Mithalwen so we're all clear on where we stand.

Thanks

[piosenniel]

NOTE TO ALL

No need to apologise - the scenario did get rather murky. Saurreg has kindly agreed to do and Alexander vs. the Gordian knot and get the players out of the situation. There will be oportunity once he does this for all players to possibly take a last whack at the trolls with the aid of the Dwarves and then regroup.

From there, it is up to you players left in the game to decide where to go from there. It is your game now.

Mithalwen

Please check with Saurreg and coordinate with him if you want to be in on the structuring of that particular wrap up/getting the game over the hump post.

~*~ Pio

[Mithalwen]

No that is find -I'll leave him to it!!!

[Saurreg]

Dear all,

I will try my best to extract all players from the tunnels and have them gather at the surface of Middle-Earth again. Unfortunately, I am no Kransha and my ability to post great writings is absolutely no existent. I am but a sunspot in his brillance. Which is one reason why I'm extremely thankful for Osse's assistance in this.

Just a show of hands; anyone still interested in fighting a troll or two? If not I'll just bulldoze my way.

Please bear with yours truly for the next few days while i try to sort things out and post to the best of my ability. Please please give suggestions and comments if deemed appropriate.

Thanks.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Saurreg

Dear all,

I will try my best to extract all players from the tunnels and have them gather at the surface of Middle-Earth again. Unfortunately, I am no Kransha and my ability to post great writings is absolutely no existent. I am but a sunspot in his brillance. Which is one reason why I'm extremely thankful for Osse's assistance in this.

Just a show of hands; anyone still interested in fighting a troll or two? If not I'll just bulldoze my way.

Please bear with yours truly for the next few days while i try to sort things out and post to the best of my ability. Please please give suggestions and comments if deemed appropriate.

Thanks.

Erenor would like a troll to fight .. I thought maybe exploit the explosion to go for general cofuion and therefor vagueness about location

[Garen LiLorian]

I think Angore probably wants to kill something. A troll would be good.

[Saurreg]

Just a query - how large are OUR trolls anyway?

The troll from the Moria literature was larger than your average man but not as colossal as THAT brute from the movies. The Olog-Hai from RoTK text dispatched its opponents by knocking them flat before going for the throat; that did imply that they weren't giants.

I'm thinking around seven to nine feet tall, powerfully built and scale clad.