The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2005, 06:27 AM   #1
the guy who be short
Shadowed Prince
 
the guy who be short's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
I took the question to mean why M&P didn't tell Treebeard when they first met him and he asked about the sight of Entwives. Who's to say that afterwards, they didn't go back, and the Ents didn't have a last bloom before their fall?

This is quite interesting actually. Why did Tolkien put the line about Hal in? Did he forget about it afterwards? Does it imply that the Ents and Entwives were reunited afterwards?
the guy who be short is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2005, 07:16 AM   #2
Folwren
Messenger of Hope
 
Folwren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States.
Posts: 5,076
Folwren is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Folwren is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
He may have forgotten about it later...but he might have added that line in at the very beginning just becaue he thought walking trees would be cool and he wanted to develope Sam's and Ted Sandyman's character right there in your first introduction of the two of them. He might have been thinking more Old Forest than Ent when he had Sam bring the topic up.
__________________
A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis
Folwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2005, 09:10 AM   #3
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Why did Tolkien put the line about Hal in?
I think it was all part of making the world around the hobbits less stable and explainable.

I don't recall that Merry and Pippin went back and talked to Treebeard again, but I may be forgetting something.

Quote:
Does it imply that the Ents and Entwives were reunited afterwards?
Hopeful souls have thought so, but I really doubt it.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2005, 02:40 PM   #4
turgon
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Annagroth
Posts: 57
turgon has just left Hobbiton.
thats a good question cookie. (side thought here)
I always assumed the'entwives' were in valinor when eru reshaped the world at the fall of numenor
__________________
"What I have left behind I count now no loss, needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to the cages"
" MIGHT IS RIGHT, DISSENT IS INTOLERABLE"
turgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2005, 03:23 PM   #5
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
I always assumed the'entwives' were in valinor when eru reshaped the world at the fall of numenor
I doubt that. The Entwives' gardens in what became the Brown Lands were still in one piece. They were not destroyed until Sauron burned them to hamper the advance of the Last Alliance.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2005, 04:42 AM   #6
Guinevere
Banshee of Camelot
 
Guinevere's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
Guinevere is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
When I first read the part where Treebeard asks the hobbits to look for Entwives in the Shire, I , too, remembered the mention of the "walking Elm-tree", and I rather hoped they would find some Entwives (after all, Sam found his pony Bill again, though that had seemed improbable too)

Tolkien wrote about the Entwives in letter # 144
Quote:
What had happened to them is not resolved in this book.
And in letter #338 (1972)
Quote:
But I think in Volume II (the song of the Ent and Entwife) it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in "history", but Ents and their wives being rational creatures would find some "earthly paradise" until the end of this world: beyond which the wisdom neither of Elves or Ents could see. Though maybe they shared the hope of Aragorn that they were "not bound for ever to the circles of the world and beyond them is more than memory."
What exactly " earthly paradise" means, is a mystery to me. But it reminds me of Galadriel's last words to Treebeard when he says that he thinks they will never meet again:
Quote:
"Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!"
that is equally mysterious to me! Is that to be after the "worlds end" ? (I haven't got the book of Lost Tales) but perhaps someone here has an explanation?
__________________
Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat
our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!
Guinevere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2005, 06:36 AM   #7
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
that is equally mysterious to me! Is that to be after the "worlds end"
Yes.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:14 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.