Outrage?

[Orominuialwen]

Men are fallible, with the possible exception of the Pope, who, of course, never makes mistakes.

But that's not what the Catholic Church teaches. The Pope, as an individual, is fallible, but the Church as a whole is not. Just wanted to clear that up.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But that's not what the Catholic Church teaches. The Pope, as an individual, is fallible, but the Church as a whole is not. Just wanted to clear that up.

Ah, sorry. So the Church's platform of noninvolvement during the Holocaust can be construed as not being a mistake? The Inquisition was loads of fun as well.

My point, tongue in cheek though it was, is that the Church has been wrong before, so who's to say the Fundementalists who are trying to say that fantasy stories are wrong... aren't wrong also?

Not that I'm saying it's the Catholic Church that is behind book banning as we speak of it, but that churches in general have been wrong in the past and people should not forget it.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

So the Church's platform of noninvolvement during the Holocaust can be construed as not being a mistake?

Feanor, your'e being just a tad offensive in regard to the Catholic church, which is beloved those who belong to it (which doesn't happen to include me). This is not Gaurhoth.

The "papal infallibility" doctrine is very specific and circumscribed, such that only a specific kind of pronouncement from the papal see is considered to be infallible. I don't happen to accept the doctrine myself, but that's an aside.

Nevertheless, the point you're trying to make about churches not always being right, is apt.

[Lalwendë]

I've been thinking about Harry Potter (as you do ) and I would suggest it's not a transitional fantasy at all, it is set in our world. So is it fantasy? It is entirely based in the real world where there is a shadowy existence of wizards, witches and fabulous creatures which we as Muggles cannot see. All this is being kept hidden from us by the Ministry of Magic who interestingly co-operate with real world Government including our Prime Minister - as seen when Sirius Black escaped.

The activities of the wizarding community are kept hidden, there is even a Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Department which covers up misdemeanours of experimenting wizards like Mr Weasley, who indeed faced discipline at work because of his own activities. There is even the Office of Misinformation which comes up with lies to tell Muggles when they have seen a magical creature; these are then passed on via the real world civil service.

This is more akin to The X Files which portrays a hidden, shadowy aspect of society where strange creatures, aliens and 'men in black' operate. This is all going on under our very noses too, kept hidden by the powers that be. I for one liked to speculate on the possibility that things portrayed in The X Files might be 'real', as it invited us to do so, playing on our paranoia. The difference with Harry Potter lies in that we are all brought up with fairy tales and are eventually told or discover for ourselves that there is 'no such thing' as a wizard like Dumbledore, nor are there unicorns or three headed dogs. The same thing is not said of shadowy government agents and secret experiments.

So I'd venture to say that Harry Potter isn't dangerous in any way, as we all eventually (and possibly sadly ) learn that the magical good/evil world of fairy tales doesn't exist in our own world. Whether it exists in another world or form is a different matter entirely. Possibly the most serious danger arising from Harry Potter is that children might want to follow in his footsteps in the form of his career ambitions. He wants to join the Ministry of Magic and become an Auror. Maybe hordes of young people brought up on Harry Potter will take a sudden interest in joining the Civil Service?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Feanor, your'e being just a tad offensive in regard to the Catholic church, which is beloved those who belong to it (which doesn't happen to include me). This is not Gaurhoth.

Nevertheless, the point you're trying to make about churches not always being right, is apt.

Many apologies to any I've offended. I did not mean to be directly so. Or really, indirectly. I could have made the simple "What about the Salem witch trials?" comment, but it's been over-done so many times that people might begin to plug their ears to it, so to speak, and not notice my point.

It is entirely based in the real world where there is a shadowy existence of wizards, witches and fabulous creatures which we as Muggles cannot see.

Parallel universe, Lal?

[Bêthberry]

I'm sure all of you can imagine my very great disappointment when I discovered, after having left King's Cross station last August (in the midst of a fire alarm in the Tube station below) that there is indeed a platform nine and three quarters at King's Cross, with directions for us tourists to find it. Clearly, that fire alarm was a conspiracy. I really don't feel, having been pushed out into London, that I was saved from a greater evil.

Of course, there were many signs concerning Middle earth about Oxford.