The Elven block.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Technical creativity from the hands of such as Feanor and Celebrimbor had brought them to disaster. (An author working the mid 20th century might echo such a reaction.)

What an interesting thread! I wonder if yet another viewpoint could be put forward: the idea that this "technological progress" as it were, is no more than an application of the pure arts, and, as with any application, both good and evil get a free shot. The case in point to me is the palantiri of Fëanor. They were crafted with a subtle art, an ancient art that has never been recreated nor fully understood. Those who came after could make use of the Stones, but none could foresee all the nuances and repercussions of such use. They drew on parts of the mind and psyche that could not be fathomed by the later users and perhaps not by anyone but Fëanor!

As a result of the events of the First and Second Ages, as well as the unfortunate marring of Fëanor, the subtle secrets of their art were lost and the opportunistic forces kicked in, bending what was once a sublime artistic achievement into yet another weapon by the time of Sauron and Saruman's ascendancies. I remember Gandalf's fond wish as he realized that he had held a palantir so close that he could have bent his mind to Aman and watched Fëanor at work in their crafting. Part of the evil wrought by their influence was this ignorance of the art within them; the other part, of course, was the direct influence of Sauron, turning what was a beautiful and subtle art to the uses of evil.

What is the meaning of all this rambling? What I mean to say is that the material progress, in itself, was not the evil, but the influence of evil--of Morgoth on Fëanor and then later of Sauron upon Saruman and Denethor by means of these wondrous seeing stones.

I do agree with davem about the Elves' fall. Fëanor's original arts were pure and untainted by the evil of Morgoth; however, Celebrimbor's art, the making of the Great Rings, was initiated by the corrupt influence of Annatar and thus their very root was tainted. The Three Rings worked much good, but ultimately, as Galadriel realized, they must pass if the evil of Sauron was to be defeated and purged from Middle Earth, thus the term for the struggle: "The Long Defeat."

Fëanor's crafts and methods were avant-garde, and look where that got him. He became a murderer, betrayer, and all-round loony. (I still love him! )

Celebrimbor's desire for technological/scientific advancement (according to the Elves) got him involved with Annatar's schemes, and ultimately, resulted in the destruction of Eregion, and the near-loss of the Grey Havens.

I think there is a fundamental difference, though, between the arts of Fëanor and those of Celebrimbor, for those of Fëanor were completed in Aman and were untouched by evil. It was Fëanor himself who was marred and somehow that cast a taint in the minds of some on his former works when, I believe, it should not have. Celebrimbor, however, was tempted by Annatar before his works were wrought; the evil influence was transferred into the heart of his creations and thus they could not stand longer than the realm of Sauron if Sauron was to be overthrown.

I can't think of any more right now, and work beckons, but I am enjoying this discussion quite a lot!

Cheers,
Lyta