Could it have worked? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-21-2005, 01:02 PM

Well, that's the thing: I didn't think the Faramir/Osgiliath fighting scenes were exciting at all. The only bit I liked was Mardil/Madril/Mablung/Macbeth/Grey-haired guy getting stuck like a pig. (Get it? Like a pig? Because Gothmog....nevermind.)

I liked the hopeless charge but that wasn't much of a fight, and it was book-based. It is the extra action scenes which didn't add anything.

Free Faramir!

The Only Real Estel · 07-21-2005, 07:01 PM

The Osgiliath stuff really didn't excite me that much either. Especially not the TTT one, which is what I assume we're mostly centering on here. It certainly wasn't on an irreplaceable level for me, & I can't imagine that it was anyone's favorite part of the movie; it's not like we'd be pulling out a Helm's Deep to get 'normal Faramir' in there.

Meneltarmacil · 07-21-2005, 08:08 PM

Actually, the attack on Osgiliath in ROTK does fit in well with the plot in my opinion and leads to a very good scene with Gandalf driving the Nazgul off, so I don't really see much of a reason for getting rid of it.

I do agree, though, that putting Osgiliath in TTT really didn't work all that well. The tension could be built up much better with some good bits of dialogue without tossing Evil Faramir and the Nazgul in there.

Gurthang · 07-26-2005, 09:52 AM

I must admit that, although I didn't like the fact or the events surrounding it, I found the Hopeless Charge (Faramir to Osgiliath) to be a very sentimental scene. Especially with Pippin's little "All Shall Fade" number.

But beyond that, it didn't make sense. Why send a whole bunch of troops back to retake a beaten down mass of stone? I think it's smarter not to spread yourself out in the situation Denethor was in. But then, he was a complete idiot and a jerk in the movies, so that fit well with his character.

In short, it's like everything else. It looked good, but made no sense and was completely non-Tolkien.

The Only Real Estel · 07-26-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

I must admit that, although I didn't like the fact or the events surrounding it, I found the Hopeless Charge (Faramir to Osgiliath) to be a very sentimental scene. Especially with Pippin's little "All Shall Fade" number.

I like that part also (strategy notwithstanding

). It's not really Osgiliath in general that I thought was bad, just most of the Osgiliath screen time in TTT (hence this thread

).

Dimturiel · 07-26-2005, 11:23 AM

I think that Tolkien would have liked the Hopeless Charge from ROTK including Pippin's song. It somehow fits with the atmosphere of Middle Earth. But he would have surely hated to see Frodo and Sam in Osgiliath in [B]TTT[/B. Sam says in the movie that by rights they should not even be there and he is more than right. They should not be in Osgiliath, they should be on their way to Mordor!

Cailín · 07-26-2005, 12:29 PM

I completely agree with the Osgiliath scene in the Two Towers being unnecessary. It was not very interesting, not very convincing and not even very sensational after the impressive scenes of the battle of Helm's Deep.

Though the extended version made it all somewhat better, I was disappointed in PJ's portrayal of Faramir. I also don't agree that it made the Ring look more powerful and harder to resist, for it is easier to believe someone turning away from it directly than someone who had already a mind to take it and then eventually decide against it. It is rather like smoking (though, naturally, the Ring was a bit more powerful - and arguably more lethal - than a cigarette): it's easier to turn away from it all together than to give up once you've decided to start.

I do think the flashback scene would have been a great idea. In general, I'd say that Faramir's so-called character arch annoyed me most in all the Lord of the Rings movies.

07-21-2005, 01:02 PM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Well, that's the thing: I didn't think the Faramir/Osgiliath fighting scenes were exciting at all. The only bit I liked was Mardil/Madril/Mablung/Macbeth/Grey-haired guy getting stuck like a pig. (Get it? Like a pig? Because Gothmog....nevermind.) I liked the hopeless charge but that wasn't much of a fight, and it was book-based. It is the extra action scenes which didn't add anything. Free Faramir! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

07-21-2005, 08:08 PM	#3
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Actually, the attack on Osgiliath in ROTK does fit in well with the plot in my opinion and leads to a very good scene with Gandalf driving the Nazgul off, so I don't really see much of a reason for getting rid of it. I do agree, though, that putting Osgiliath in TTT really didn't work all that well. The tension could be built up much better with some good bits of dialogue without tossing Evil Faramir and the Nazgul in there. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

07-26-2005, 09:52 AM	#4
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I must admit that, although I didn't like the fact or the events surrounding it, I found the Hopeless Charge (Faramir to Osgiliath) to be a very sentimental scene. Especially with Pippin's little "All Shall Fade" number. But beyond that, it didn't make sense. Why send a whole bunch of troops back to retake a beaten down mass of stone? I think it's smarter not to spread yourself out in the situation Denethor was in. But then, he was a complete idiot and a jerk in the movies, so that fit well with his character. In short, it's like everything else. It looked good, but made no sense and was completely non-Tolkien. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

07-26-2005, 11:23 AM	#6
Dimturiel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2005 Location: the road less travelled by Posts: 910	I think that Tolkien would have liked the Hopeless Charge from ROTK including Pippin's song. It somehow fits with the atmosphere of Middle Earth. But he would have surely hated to see Frodo and Sam in Osgiliath in [B]TTT[/B. Sam says in the movie that by rights they should not even be there and he is more than right. They should not be in Osgiliath, they should be on their way to Mordor! __________________ Is this the end? No more the hunt, the journey and the goal? That terrifies me most: no more the goal! -Ray Bradbury, Leviathan '99

07-21-2005, 07:01 PM	#2
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	The Osgiliath stuff really didn't excite me that much either. Especially not the TTT one, which is what I assume we're mostly centering on here. It certainly wasn't on an irreplaceable level for me, & I can't imagine that it was anyone's favorite part of the movie; it's not like we'd be pulling out a Helm's Deep to get 'normal Faramir' in there.

07-26-2005, 12:29 PM	#7
Cailín Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lurking in the shadows. Posts: 711	I completely agree with the Osgiliath scene in the Two Towers being unnecessary. It was not very interesting, not very convincing and not even very sensational after the impressive scenes of the battle of Helm's Deep. Though the extended version made it all somewhat better, I was disappointed in PJ's portrayal of Faramir. I also don't agree that it made the Ring look more powerful and harder to resist, for it is easier to believe someone turning away from it directly than someone who had already a mind to take it and then eventually decide against it. It is rather like smoking (though, naturally, the Ring was a bit more powerful - and arguably more lethal - than a cigarette): it's easier to turn away from it all together than to give up once you've decided to start. I do think the flashback scene would have been a great idea. In general, I'd say that Faramir's so-called character arch annoyed me most in all the Lord of the Rings movies.