who's the oldest? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarwain · 08-14-2003, 04:42 PM

This argument is futile. Let's take a look:

-Bombadil's name states that he is "Eldest and Fatherless". The elves named him such. However, he is also mysterious beyond explaination, and is an enigma that cannot be finally solved.

-Fangorn never claims to be "Eldest". It is well known that the Elves awoke the tree-shepherds, therefore making all ents younger than elves, and therefore younger than any Maiar on Middle-Earth.

-The various Istari, being Maiar, and therefore Ainur, were the first creation of Eru: the "fruit of his thought". This would place them far before anyone that awoke in Middle-Earth, be he man, elf, or ent.

-Statement 3 poses a problem, because how can Bombadil be eldest if he is not a Maia? And then we further the question by asking how we know that Bombadil isn't a Maia. But we realize that there is no specific evidence that says that he is a Maia, rather than a Vala, or even Eru incarnate.

-By now, we have lost all consideration of who is "eldest" because we lack a clear understanding of Bombadil's nature. The discussion turns to him and him alone, and we create yet another "Who is Tom Bombadil?" thread.

I think that wraps it up.

Iarwain

08-14-2003, 04:42 PM	#10
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	This argument is futile. Let's take a look: -Bombadil's name states that he is "Eldest and Fatherless". The elves named him such. However, he is also mysterious beyond explaination, and is an enigma that cannot be finally solved. -Fangorn never claims to be "Eldest". It is well known that the Elves awoke the tree-shepherds, therefore making all ents younger than elves, and therefore younger than any Maiar on Middle-Earth. -The various Istari, being Maiar, and therefore Ainur, were the first creation of Eru: the "fruit of his thought". This would place them far before anyone that awoke in Middle-Earth, be he man, elf, or ent. -Statement 3 poses a problem, because how can Bombadil be eldest if he is not a Maia? And then we further the question by asking how we know that Bombadil isn't a Maia. But we realize that there is no specific evidence that says that he is a Maia, rather than a Vala, or even Eru incarnate. -By now, we have lost all consideration of who is "eldest" because we lack a clear understanding of Bombadil's nature. The discussion turns to him and him alone, and we create yet another "Who is Tom Bombadil?" thread. I think that wraps it up. Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"