Stolen Dumbledore

[Lalaith]

This thread has made me think a little about the very different way that Rowling and Tolkien use names, linguistically.
Rowling's use is playful, like an academic in-joke, as Feanor points out, with names like Sirius, Lupus, Fenrir and son on, often obviously referential to those who know their myths, their Latin and so on.

Tolkien uses names in a more poetic, almost onomatopoeic way. Sometimes he uses historical or cultural associations, but only in a general way (the Rohirrim have Anglosaxon names, the Dwarves have Nordic ones, the Brandybucks have Old Gothic ones) but mostly he seems to have just plucked them out of the air because they sounded beautiful (elves) or nasty (Orcs).

Now who is going to moan about similarities between Aragog and Aragorn?

[Ainaserkewen]

It seems much more popular these days for books and movies to want to reward their fans by throwing in those kind of names. In direct reference to what Lalaith said in the last post.

I can think of examples in the Matrix, Harry Potter etc. where names are used as inside jokes. Perhaps instead of "stealing" Dumbledor from Tolkien, Rowling, a supposedly learned writer, wanted to give us Fantasy fans a little laugh in the same way she kept using the word "snogging" consistantly in the 6th book but one of the Griffindor tower passwords was "Abstinence"...all these cultural references are great in my opinion and give her books a touch of class.

[VanimaEdhel]

I think that a lot of what I like about Rowling is derived from the aspect of "mystery" in her books. Though they are fantasy, they are also, no doubt, of the mystery genre. There is always an arc of the introduction of a problem, the emergence of a mystery related to this problem, and an elemental (if nothing else) solution to the problem at hand at the end. If you think about it, it's such a simple model. However, there's always at least two or three parts of the mystery I never even considered. The first time through the book, I reach the end and typically let out a large gasp. On the other hand, then I go back and read the book again almost immediately. I realize then that everything is there. Although I guessed that Snape was the Half-Blood Prince almost immediately.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to work out R.A.B. You know who I realized had the first and last initials R.B.? Regulus Black - Sirius Black's younger brother thought to be dead. I wonder if he is still alive in hiding somewhere or something. Or whether he started wiping out the Horcruxes towards the end of his life, and they caught up with him and killed him? We also don't know Borgin's first and middle initials...

Going back to the idea of evil: in Harry Potter, I feel that the idea of "pure evil" isn't so much present as the idea of "pure corruption." There's almost the theory that everyone starts out pure, but then they can choose actions. And there isn't "pure good" and "pure evil." For example, I consider Draco Malfoy to be a nasty little brat, but I don't think he's at a point where we can consider him to be true evil - we find him crying in the bathroom, saying that the Dark Lord told him he must do it soon or else he'll be killed. There's a part of Draco that's desparate to stay alive, desperate to please his dark family. However, there's still part of him that's a child - he can't kill Dumbledore, he wouldn't. Granted, I believe that Dumbledore didn't want to give him the shot and instructed Snape to do it as soon as he got there - not wanting one of his students to become a murderer. And when we find young Tom Riddle, he's got inclinations towards power and corruption, but it's all derived from fear - an emotion closely associated with an innocent personality. His deep terror of death and the unknown drove him to commit atrocities. However, Dumbledore doesn't seem to show hatred for the evils done by Voldemort - he seems to pity him.

The concept of "choice", as I alluded to earlier, is also key. Dumbledore said to Harry at the end of this novel that the prophecy means nothing essentially. It only means something because Voldemort believed it. However, if Voldemort had never heard it, it would have never come to fruition. Choice is still in everyone's hands - prophecy is just a possibility. It's whether the person chooses to follow through with it. There also always seems to be a cross-over of sorts - the "good" choosing evil while the "bad" choose goodness. For example, Peter Pettigrew goes to Voldemort out of fear (once again, returning to people's negative actions being derived from fear) while Snape comes over to the side of the Order of the Phoenix. The switch seems to be what sustains the conflict - in almost every book, we've had a character we've trusted prove untrustworthy and a character we didn't believe turning out to be a hero. I think it's coming to light again with Draco Malfoy and Neville Longbottom. Ultimately, I think Draco will be given the opportunity to come back to Hogwarts and rejoin society and Neville with be captured and tortured to find evidence of where Harry is. Unlike what happened before, Neville would rather die than tell the Death Eaters - he's strong despite his lack of ability. He'll die in the end, I believe, while Draco will ultimately be swayed to help Harry, perhaps by Snape even. This throw of balance towards the "good" side will result in Harry's victory.

It's just a theory, but it's also an example of how things seem to work in Rowling's book. It recalls an almost spiritual balance of the world - how things must be in order for continuation. Only a throw of balance can result in change.

[Elonve]

But i thought Dumbeldore was from welsh and it means bumblebee...

If you have ever tried writing fantasy you'd know its really hard. it is ineveateble that one takes elements form other things that you've read... come on guys give her some credit!!!! Plus it points out that JK 's muse is Tolkien and he is undoubtedly the master!
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[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Now who is going to moan about similarities between Aragog and Aragorn?

Not me! But Gog and Magog are British legendary giants, and if you take Gog and add the Ara- of Arachnid, you get Aragog...Spider Giant!

[Kath]

But Gog and Magog are British legendary giants, and if you take Gog and add the Ara- of Arachnid, you get Aragog...Spider Giant!

Ah maybe this will finally provide an explanation of Aragorns mad run up the stairs in TT! Ara - spider, gorn - runner?

[Thinlómien]

Aren't Gog and Magog from the Bible? I always thought so.

And as for lending the names, Diana Wynne Jones has a dwarf male called Galadriel in one of her books. That's quite offensing...