Why Moria? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kath · 08-06-2005, 04:03 PM

When you say Gollum's secret passage do you mean the tunnels through which Gandalf and the dwarves and then Bilbo ran through when escaping the goblins? If so then they probably wouldn't have been able to go through there because of the goblins, and also wouldn't that have taken them in the wrong direction?

And Tolkien did actually think ahead as he wrote. In HoME you can see the plot outlines that he wrote and he had forseen at least the basic plot of Lothlorien before they even entered Moria.

Kuruharan · 08-06-2005, 06:43 PM

It might have been possible for the Fellowship to go through the high pass and then down into the land of the Beornings. However, the problem with that path is that it would take them waaaay to close to Dol Guldur when they turned south.

Formendacil · 08-06-2005, 08:48 PM

Another thing to note is that when they left Rivendell, the Fellowship had every reason to hope that they would be able to cross over the Redhorn Pass- and so into Lorien, which Gandalf apparently intended to visit, re this statement of Aragorn's:

Quote:

'Our road leads beside it for many miles. For I shall take you by the road that Gandalf chose, and first I hope to come to the woods where the Silverlode flows into the Great River--out yonder.' They looked as he pointed, and before them they could see the stream leaping down to the trough of the valley, and then running on and away into the lower lands, until it was lost in a golden haze.

That being noted, by the time that the Fellowship reached the Redhorn Pass- and found it impassible, going back north was really a non-option. They would easily have lost a couple of months going back and then down the Vale of the Anduin- even if, as Kuruharan notes, there was no Dol Guldur to worry about.

Rhod the Red · 05-04-2006, 11:45 AM

They should have gone over the Misty Mountains via the route the Dawrves, Gandalf and Bilbo went in The Hobbit.

goldfinger · 05-04-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

They should have gone over the Misty Mountains via the route the Dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo went in The Hobbit.

The Redhorn pass wouldn't have been any easier than Moria, considering Orcs were still known to ambush travelers who took that route.

Elu Ancalime · 05-04-2006, 01:57 PM

But there was also no Balrog, which is something I think Gandalf cared about more than goblins.

As far as the Fellowship traveling East, it came down to the lesser of all the other evils. Or just process of elimination.

-Boromir said they should make for the Gap of Rohan, but it was closed to them because of Sauruman's power in the area and the Eye looking West. Also, there were no real hospitable places to provide them with some up-to-date news on how fast Gondor was going to get beaten or some food or a bed(that would be Lothlorien). If The Fellowship could get across the Fords of Isen, would Theoden have accepted them under Wormtougne's power? And if they had deposed Grima, he would just tell Sauruman that the Ringbearer or Gandalf was there, and Sauruman's army was less than 100 miles away I believe. Then they would be tailed through the Entwash and Anorien until they reached the Drugs or Minas Tirith.

-It was also mentioned one about taking "the western way" by coming near Druath Iaur and passing around the western end of the White Mountains, and traveling through the fiefs of Gondor along the coast. This would take too much time, and although they would be in hostile territory, there was no land that they could be assured traveling in secret, because there were no places like Rivendell or Lothlorien that they could get the news and not have to worry about being revealed.

-And the High Pass? It wasn't really out of the way, and there wouldnt be more goblins than there were at the time of TH, and the actual pass dosnt even go under ground. They underground passage was just a cave network that the Thorin and Co tried to sleep in. It did however, stick them out in the Wild, and it would not take long to send a Ringwraith from Dol Gulder up the River if they were revealed to Sauron. Like Formedacil said.

The biggest problem of the High Pass was that they did not have to decide direction until it was behind them. They had already planned to take the Redhorn Pass (which compared to the alternatives was obvuously the most direct). Thus Moria was already less than 20 miles away and the next direct. They had to gamble danger with speed, and I think that if Gandalf had told everyone that a balrog was in there and they understood, they wouldnt have been as Gimli-eager, but they still would have felt it was the only "way."
________
IOLITE VAPORIZER

Kuruharan · 05-04-2006, 04:04 PM

Gandalf did not know the balrog was there.

Nobody knew what Durin's Bane was.

Rhod the Red · 05-05-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger

The Redhorn pass wouldn't have been any easier than Moria, considering Orcs were still known to ambush travelers who took that route.

In The Hobbit perhaps, but there's no assertion of that at the Council Of Elrond. How do you think Legolas reached Rivendell?

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-05-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu

And the High Pass?

I seem to recall it being said somewhere that, at the time the Fellowship left Rivendell (in December), the High Pass was impassable.

08-06-2005, 04:03 PM	#1
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	When you say Gollum's secret passage do you mean the tunnels through which Gandalf and the dwarves and then Bilbo ran through when escaping the goblins? If so then they probably wouldn't have been able to go through there because of the goblins, and also wouldn't that have taken them in the wrong direction? And Tolkien did actually think ahead as he wrote. In HoME you can see the plot outlines that he wrote and he had forseen at least the basic plot of Lothlorien before they even entered Moria. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

08-06-2005, 06:43 PM	#2
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	It might have been possible for the Fellowship to go through the high pass and then down into the land of the Beornings. However, the problem with that path is that it would take them waaaay to close to Dol Guldur when they turned south. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

05-04-2006, 11:45 AM	#4
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	They should have gone over the Misty Mountains via the route the Dawrves, Gandalf and Bilbo went in The Hobbit. __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia

05-04-2006, 01:57 PM	#6
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	But there was also no Balrog, which is something I think Gandalf cared about more than goblins. As far as the Fellowship traveling East, it came down to the lesser of all the other evils. Or just process of elimination. -Boromir said they should make for the Gap of Rohan, but it was closed to them because of Sauruman's power in the area and the Eye looking West. Also, there were no real hospitable places to provide them with some up-to-date news on how fast Gondor was going to get beaten or some food or a bed(that would be Lothlorien). If The Fellowship could get across the Fords of Isen, would Theoden have accepted them under Wormtougne's power? And if they had deposed Grima, he would just tell Sauruman that the Ringbearer or Gandalf was there, and Sauruman's army was less than 100 miles away I believe. Then they would be tailed through the Entwash and Anorien until they reached the Drugs or Minas Tirith. -It was also mentioned one about taking "the western way" by coming near Druath Iaur and passing around the western end of the White Mountains, and traveling through the fiefs of Gondor along the coast. This would take too much time, and although they would be in hostile territory, there was no land that they could be assured traveling in secret, because there were no places like Rivendell or Lothlorien that they could get the news and not have to worry about being revealed. -And the High Pass? It wasn't really out of the way, and there wouldnt be more goblins than there were at the time of TH, and the actual pass dosnt even go under ground. They underground passage was just a cave network that the Thorin and Co tried to sleep in. It did however, stick them out in the Wild, and it would not take long to send a Ringwraith from Dol Gulder up the River if they were revealed to Sauron. Like Formedacil said. The biggest problem of the High Pass was that they did not have to decide direction until it was behind them. They had already planned to take the Redhorn Pass (which compared to the alternatives was obvuously the most direct). Thus Moria was already less than 20 miles away and the next direct. They had to gamble danger with speed, and I think that if Gandalf had told everyone that a balrog was in there and they understood, they wouldnt have been as Gimli-eager, but they still would have felt it was the only "way." ________ IOLITE VAPORIZER Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:57 PM.

05-04-2006, 04:04 PM	#7
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	Gandalf did not know the balrog was there. Nobody knew what Durin's Bane was. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...