The Grace of Ilúvatar? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mister Underhill*** · 08-09-2005, 11:53 AM

But isn't "deserving of grace" a contradiction in terms? The very definition of grace is that it is not deserved, but is given as a mercy: "grace: 1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification".

burrahobbit · 08-09-2005, 11:59 AM

What I mean is you don't give grace to naughty people.

***Mister Underhill*** · 08-09-2005, 12:00 PM

Sure you do, that's the point.

burrahobbit · 08-09-2005, 12:03 PM

Oh you cad. You don't give it to somebody that is so naughty that they have refused every opportunity to repent their sinning ways.

Estelyn Telcontar · 08-09-2005, 12:06 PM

Basically, yes, you do. However, it is true that the window of opportunity may not remain open permanently.

Bêthberry · 08-10-2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Basically, yes, you do. However, it is true that the window of opportunity may not remain open permanently.

So, what you are suggesting, Estelyn, is that we make hay while the sun shines?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

1. No one knows mind of Eru as a whole

HI, I'm surprised at you, acknowledging the difficulty with the 'authorial intention' camp like that.

mark12_30 · 08-10-2005, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

So, what you are suggesting, Estelyn, is that we make hay while the sun shines?

One never knows when one might be hit by a truck. Or, barring trucks, a falling rock.

The medieval mystics used this reminder as a method of keeping their accounts short: if I were to die in five minutes, would I regret leaving this as it is? Or would I wish that I had:

--loved more deeply
--offered forgiveness
--finished what I started
--...etc.

Quote:

HI, I'm surprised at you, acknowledging the difficulty with the 'authorial intention' camp like that.

There is knowing the author and there is knowing The Author. One is, simultaneously, more easily known and less easily known than the other. Which wraps back around, of course, into the Grace of Iluvatar; take it away, Esty, H-I and Mister Underhill.

08-09-2005, 11:59 AM	#2
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	What I mean is you don't give grace to naughty people. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

08-09-2005, 12:03 PM	#4
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Oh you cad. You don't give it to somebody that is so naughty that they have refused every opportunity to repent their sinning ways. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

08-09-2005, 12:06 PM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Basically, yes, you do. However, it is true that the window of opportunity may not remain open permanently. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

08-09-2005, 11:53 AM	#1
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	But isn't "deserving of grace" a contradiction in terms? The very definition of grace is that it is not deserved, but is given as a mercy: "grace: 1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification".

08-09-2005, 12:00 PM	#3
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	Sure you do, that's the point.