LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 06 - The Battle of Pelennor Fields

[Kuruharan]

I still want to know what the 'houses of lamentation' are. Could they be something to do with what Gandalf says? The 'abyss' that was prepared for him? Or are they some kind of alternate Halls of Mandos?

I doubt that. This was something that belonged to Sauron and Sauron only had power in Middle Earth.

I suspect that it was Sauron's torture chamber, perhaps where he cooked up his necromancy.

[Celuien]

It also struck me that Eowyn standing over Theoden in battle with the Witch King paralleled Sam's confrontation with Shelob. Both faced a terrifying evil force far stronger than themselves out of love and loyalty to another.

Eomer does seem uncomfortably close to Denethor with his response to Eowyn's apparent death. I like Firefoot's explanation. Another example of a Rohirric warrior using despair as motivation to achieve victory in battle, or is this revenge?

[drigel]

One of my favorite chapters, as I'm sure it is for everyone else.

Then Theoden was aware of him, and would not wait for his onset, but crying to Snowmane he charged headlong to greet him.

No hesitation, no doubting. Folly, or strategy? I would say it was leadership in it's purest sense. King vs. King. Leader upon leader. No directing from the rear ranks in this heroic clash.

A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil.

Vivid, descriptive, heroic style, almost poetic. Wonderfull! This chapter is full of such examples. As if a thousand songs were sung of the events in this chapter alone.

Down, down it came, and then, folding its fingered webs, it gave a croacking cry, and settled upon the body of Snowmane, digging in its claws, stooping its long naked neck.

I can almost hear the good Professor's voice recite that.

A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly. The outstretched neck she clove asunder, and the hewn head fell like a stone. Backward she sprang as the huge shape crashed to ruin, vast wings outspread, crumpled on the earth; and with its fall the shadow passed away.

A truly Rohirric manuver. Kill the steed and then deal with the rider.

Shapeless they lay now on the ground, torn and tumbled; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up and was never heard again in that age of this world.

Whither anon will he be heard again?

[davem]

Random thoughts:

Farewell, Master Holbytla!' he said. 'My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!'

A reference to Rohirric beliefs here. The Rohirrim apparently are ancestor worshippers. Theoden will go to be with his ancestors, whose opinion & judgement on his actions is important to him. He has had standards to live up to which he feels he has finally lived up to. He has achieved the fame necessary to stand in their company. The interesting thing is that he seems to feel that his 'fathers' still 'live' in some form, in some other 'place'. Is this some place of their own invention? Have they picked up a belief in the Valar through their contact with Gondor, or is this a survival of older beliefs they brought south with them?

For a moment the thought flitted through Merry's mind: 'Where is Gandalf? Is he not here? Could he not have saved the king and Eowyn?'

This is clearly the question uppermost in the reader's mind in this context. But it will not be answered till the next chapter. Merry's sense, though, is that Gandalf should have been there - almost as though he knew on some level that it was Gandalf''s task, in which he 'failed'. We also get the sense that Gandalf also felt he had 'failed'.

And all eyes followed his gaze, and behold! upon the foremost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree, and that was for Gondor;, but Seven Stars were about it, and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count. And the stars flamed in the sunlight, for they were wrought of gems by Arwen daughter of Elrond; and the crown was bright in the morning, for it was wrought of mithril and gold.

So we see Arwen's banner unfurled. It is Aragorn's proclamation of his heritage & his claim to the Kingship. In a sense its a repetition of his earlier challenge to Eomer - I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn - will you aid me, or thwart me?'

Finally, this is the third chapter which culminates (or nearly does & if I'm right about the last 'paragraph' in the previous chapter actually being 'verse') in a poem made 'long after' the events of the chapter. There are two 'effects' of these 'later interpolations' - one, they emphasise that what we are reading is a 'compilation', a work put together by various hands over a long period, first by Bilbo/Frodo/Sam & afterwards translated & added to by others - notably Findegil the King's scribe - & in the last instance by Professor Tolkien (unless we count the translators of LotR who have followed Tolkien) two, they reveal for attentive readers that 'long after' the events we're reading about there would be song makers in Rohan still around to compose heroic elegies to the fallen.

I think this accounts for Eomer's sudden bursting into alliterative verse at his discovery of Theoden's body. In a sense, the events of this chapter are like the ending of the last one - we're not reading reportage here, but a heroic legend, probably originally set down in verse. How this fits in with the 'conceit' of the story being set down relatively soon afterwards by Frodo is a more difficult question. He would certainly have got the story from Merry, who was a knight of Rohan, & may have leant towards a 'print the legend' approach - who can say?

[Kuruharan]

A reference to Rohirric beliefs here. The Rohirrim apparently are ancestor worshippers. Theoden will go to be with his ancestors, whose opinion & judgement on his actions is important to him. He has had standards to live up to which he feels he has finally lived up to. He has achieved the fame necessary to stand in their company. The interesting thing is that he seems to feel that his 'fathers' still 'live' in some form, in some other 'place'. Is this some place of their own invention? Have they picked up a belief in the Valar through their contact with Gondor, or is this a survival of older beliefs they brought south with them?

Thorin says something very similar at his death. The Rohirrim may have picked it up from the dwarves in the days when they lived up north. They also had extensive contact with Gondor even before they went north so both...perhaps.

However, I think "worship" is far too strong a word for it. "Respect" might be a better term. Just because you desire the good opinion of somebody does not mean that you worship them (even if they are dead.)