LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 05 - The Ride of the Rohirrim - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 08-17-2005, 02:20 PM

Another take on this fascinating line of discussion...

I think it is all too easy to simply equate Rohirrim with Anglo-Saxons but what we have to remember is that the reality of Saxon England was both different and more complex. In practical terms there are major differences such as the Anglo-Saxons did not ride horses into battle. This was also the period when the Vikings were both invading and settling in the British Isles and the two cultures co-existed, and the older Romano-British people had not all been pushed to the fringes of the island as some were assimilated. In addition, the Scots and Welsh had their own cultures. I think the Rohirrim display more than just Anglo-Saxon traits, and we could say that all the cultures of Middle-earth to some extent represent aspects of the British people.

The Anglo-Saxons were certainly aggressive in conquering England to begin with, and though they did settle down very quickly, they still exploited those British people who were not on their side. One of the old words for Welshman also meant 'slave', and slavery was a major trade for these people. Perhaps the hunting of the Woses might echo this dark past of the English, hunting and trading their own neighbours.

Within the context of Middle-earth the idea that the Rohirrim were less than perfect does 'fit'. The Numenoreans themselves were less than perfect, landing on the coasts of Middle-earth and exploiting their fellow Men (which makes me wonder if millenia of resntment had built up in such peoples as the Corsairs and Haradrim against 'oppressive Numenoreans').

If there is a lesson in this, then perhaps Tolkien is showing how the Woses are dignified, and though they have been oppressed by the Rohirrim in the past, they are willing to help their distant kin. Whether this is the 'noble savage' concept I don't know, and likewise, I'm not certain if that concept is 'correct' in itself, but in any case, the Woses do teach the Rohirrim a valuable lesson.

davem · 08-17-2005, 04:39 PM

Co-incidentally, I just came across a piece in the latest Tolkien Studies. In the 1920's Tolkien translated a section of Gerald of Wales 'Description of Wales' (circa 1191) into Anglo-Saxon for a colleague at Leeds University. Just prior to that section are these words of Gerald's:

Quote:

The English, I say, want to drive the Welsh out of the Island & capture it all for themselves. The Welsh, who for so long ruled over the whole kingdom, want only to find refuge together in the least attractive corner of it, the woods, the mountains & the marshes, to which they have been banished for their sins, so that there for a given time they may in want & poverty do penance for the excesses which they committed when they were prosperous.

I can't help wondering if Tolkien had this in the back of his mind...

08-17-2005, 02:20 PM	#1
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Another take on this fascinating line of discussion... I think it is all too easy to simply equate Rohirrim with Anglo-Saxons but what we have to remember is that the reality of Saxon England was both different and more complex. In practical terms there are major differences such as the Anglo-Saxons did not ride horses into battle. This was also the period when the Vikings were both invading and settling in the British Isles and the two cultures co-existed, and the older Romano-British people had not all been pushed to the fringes of the island as some were assimilated. In addition, the Scots and Welsh had their own cultures. I think the Rohirrim display more than just Anglo-Saxon traits, and we could say that all the cultures of Middle-earth to some extent represent aspects of the British people. The Anglo-Saxons were certainly aggressive in conquering England to begin with, and though they did settle down very quickly, they still exploited those British people who were not on their side. One of the old words for Welshman also meant 'slave', and slavery was a major trade for these people. Perhaps the hunting of the Woses might echo this dark past of the English, hunting and trading their own neighbours. Within the context of Middle-earth the idea that the Rohirrim were less than perfect does 'fit'. The Numenoreans themselves were less than perfect, landing on the coasts of Middle-earth and exploiting their fellow Men (which makes me wonder if millenia of resntment had built up in such peoples as the Corsairs and Haradrim against 'oppressive Numenoreans'). If there is a lesson in this, then perhaps Tolkien is showing how the Woses are dignified, and though they have been oppressed by the Rohirrim in the past, they are willing to help their distant kin. Whether this is the 'noble savage' concept I don't know, and likewise, I'm not certain if that concept is 'correct' in itself, but in any case, the Woses do teach the Rohirrim a valuable lesson. __________________ Gordon's alive!