LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 06 - The Battle of Pelennor Fields

[Kuruharan]

Hmm. Well, it is not my experience of the word 'fell' to say it is morally neutral.

Imagine that, you've been having a new experience all these years and you didn't even know it.

1. of animals and men, their actions and attributes: Fierce, savage; cruel, ruthless; dreadful, terrible. Also in cruel and fell, fierce and fell. Now only poetical or rhetorical.

Well, warfare requires this sort of thing and the Rohirrim were fighting a war.

However, it still seems to me that to describe both the food of the beast and the Rohirrim with the same word collapses the distance between the two at the moment of pitched battle when the difference seems so very important. They share the same quality.

A) I think you are grasping at straws in taking a rather narrow instance and making a bit much of it.

B) What do you expect? Look at it as a part of Tolkien's empathy to show that fighting against the Free Peoples was an unpleasant experience for those involved and he appreciated that as an author.

[Encaitare]

Dictionary.com says...

1. Of an inhumanly cruel nature; fierce: fell hordes.
2. Capable of destroying; lethal: a fell blow.
3. Dire; sinister: by some fell chance.
4. Scots. Sharp and biting.

I think that definition 2 was what Tolkien has in mind; it shows what exactly the Rohirrim are capable of in what they think is their last hour. He could have described them as valiant or brave or noble, but we already know that. If we go by definition 2, we can see that they've been acting 'fell' all along even if they haven't been defined as such, charging at the foe crying 'Death!' and hacking off the heads of evil beasts.

Originally Posted by Bb

However, it still seems to me that to describe both the food of the beast and the Rohirrim with the same word collapses the distance between the two at the moment of pitched battle when the difference seems so very important. They share the same quality.

Maybe Sauron fed the beast with Rohirrim.

[Kuruharan]

Maybe Sauron fed the beast with Rohirrim.

Anything is possible.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Maybe Sauron fed the beast with Rohirrim.

Ah, Encaitare, what a splendid entrance to the Chapter by Chapter discussions! Where logic splitteth hairs, humour gels.

Dictionary.com says...

. . . .

I think that definition 2 was what Tolkien has in mind; it shows what exactly the Rohirrim are capable of in what they think is their last hour. He could have described them as valiant or brave or noble, but we already know that. If we go by definition 2, we can see that they've been acting 'fell' all along even if they haven't been defined as such, charging at the foe crying 'Death!' and hacking off the heads of evil beasts.

Now I'll admit I'm as given to tossing out quotations from dictionaries as any one here (although I don't share completely Fordim's total admiration for the OED) but sometimes I wonder how people managed to understand books and new vocabulary before our great Dr. Johnson wrote our first illustrious dictionary and Noah Webster enlightened Americans about new ways to spell old words. How did they do it?

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

A) I think you are grasping at straws in taking a rather narrow instance and making a bit much of it.

B) What do you expect? Look at it as a part of Tolkien's empathy to show that fighting against the Free Peoples was an unpleasant experience for those involved and he appreciated that as an author.

You know, you could be right, Kuru--straws making good strawmen--but I just sort of thought that Tolkien fans might be somewhat as curious about the ways of language as Tolkien was himself and when a rather unique word is used uniquely to describe two 'sides' in the major battle chapter of the book, well, gosh, it was just too tempting to make hay.

[Lalwendë]

Fell is a word that interests me in the way Tolkien uses it so I think it's a good topic to discuss. I think that he was trying to make the point that 'fell' beasts and 'fell' Rohirrim warriors were taken by the same mood of anger - the first cannot but help be 'fell' as this is how they are bred to be, but the second can help it - which emphasises just how committed to battle they are.

The word itself is interesting as it has a Norse origin, whereas in the geographic sense 'hill' (and even 'mountain') is a lot more mild. As a child I imagined all fells to be tough places to walk, while hills would be gentler. Norse names such as Scafell or Helvellyn sound far more foreboding than names such as Losehill which sounds much softer. Tolkien also uses the term 'fey' to describe the moods of characters in the book, which always strikes me as alike to 'faerie' - does he mean to conjour up an idea that the mood which takes people at this point could be both noble and at the same time perilous?

About animals in LotR - I wonder if I am the only one who feels a little sad that the Oliphaunts and other creatures seem to die out after the War of the Ring? Maybe it is a symptom of modern times that we feel sadness for such creatures and the way they are exploited?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

About animals in LotR - I wonder if I am the only one who feels a little sad that the Oliphaunts and other creatures seem to die out after the War of the Ring? Maybe it is a symptom of modern times that we feel sadness for such creatures and the way they are exploited?

Nice to see someone picked this up!

We are so accustomed, I think, to hearing about the wonderful horses of Rohan and their expert masters that I think we tend to forget the use of and fate of other animals in the battle. Is there any suggestion in any of Tolkien's other writings about why the oliphaunts die out? To be honest, I cannot help thinking--and I know this is irrelevant--of George Orwell's essay, Shooting an Elephant .

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

In short this chapter reminds me of a old painting of a crowded battlefield, and everywhere you look some story is unfolding. All of them important.

Oh, how very apt, Hilde! A Bruegel battlefield, with no one central focus.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

You know, you could be right, Kuru--straws making good strawmen--but I just sort of thought that Tolkien fans might be somewhat as curious about the ways of language as Tolkien was himself and when a rather unique word is used uniquely to describe two 'sides' in the major battle chapter of the book, well, gosh, it was just too tempting to make hay.

Rather than make an edit to my post, I thought it preferable to add something in a new post.

One of the things which intrigues me no end about Tolkien was how he could maintain a love and great delight in the warrior epics of old in the face of his experience in the trenches of WWI. There are many ways this seeming contradiction can be resolved, of course, and none of them would be to the discredit of Tolkien. But finding the same word used for both sides really tweaked my curiosity about this point.

Originally Posted by Lal

Fell is a word that interests me in the way Tolkien uses it so I think it's a good topic to discuss. I think that he was trying to make the point that 'fell' beasts and 'fell' Rohirrim warriors were taken by the same mood of anger - the first cannot but help be 'fell' as this is how they are bred to be, but the second can help it - which emphasises just how committed to battle they are.

. . .
Tolkien also uses the term 'fey' to describe the moods of characters in the book, which always strikes me as alike to 'faerie' - does he mean to conjour up an idea that the mood which takes people at this point could be both noble and at the same time perilous?

'fell' and 'fey' indeed, Lal, they are fascinating words to use. 'fey' elements in fairy stories always suggest to me danger and intrigue, of the kind that might lead to either death or greater knowledge. A risk that might not always pertain in the primary world.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

The only point that I would like to make about this chapter is that, for me, it is genuinely productive of eucatastrophe. I remember very clearly my first experience of the book and reading of the approach of the ships up the Anduin. I was convinced that it wal all over and that the corsairs had come but then lo! out comes Aragorm (with the banner of Arwen, yes yes Esty) and like a miracle the tide of battle is turned.

This is a triumph of two things: first, of Aragorn's skill as a leader. All that he has done and said to this moment has led to this moment. He has returned (it's happened, the King has returned) and he has done so to save his city -- wow wow and again, wow. Just as the hand of Eru/providence will intrude into the story at the Crack of Doom as reward for Frodo and Sam's endurance, so too does Aragorn intrude into the story of Gondor -- which as Denethor has long realised is a story of defeat -- as a reward for their endurance. And this is why I think that Tolkien makes sure that Denethor is so problematic: for the return of the King is not the result of the steadfast adherence to an ideal of the nobility but of the unrelenting, silent and unnamed courage and fealty of the people. Throughout the battle we see that it is the common soldier who must be heartened by Gandalf or inspired to fight on. I mean, by and large the leaders don't do so well: Faramir is felled, Theoden dies, Eowyn and Merry are removed from the field of battle -- sure they all do great things, but they're not the ones who turn the tide: it's the common soldiers, lead by and inspired by their King. Aragorn does not win the battle, he leads his followers to victory -- an important point, insofar as it is the people who will recognise him as Elessar thus making him King.

The other thing that makes this productive of that sudden joyous turn, for me, is the craft and art of Tolkien. He has crafted a truly ripping yarn indeed, having left Aragorn's story incomplete a while back, and carefully managed the narrative to this point, it's easy to forget that Aragorn is on his way: with everyone saying "where's Rohan" it distracts us from the real question of "where's the King?" So when it happens its as big a surprise for the reader as it is for the characters in the tale: a not-incosiderable feat. In this way, it's not just the hand of Eru we see at work, but the hand of the writer.

And just to round out HI's excellent observation about the giveaway at the end of this chapter. With that song that will be "later made" and sung for years about the victory, the story acknowleges that the good side is going to win: it gives the game away. But that's all part of the eucatastrophe again insofar as this moment acknowleges that Aragorn's miraculous return is not just a moment in a battle, but the definite turning point in history; everything has changed because of this, forever.

Perhaps the greatest testimony to Tolkien's story-telling ability is that this moment is so soon forgotten and we are once again on the edge of our seats with Frodo and Sam, hoping that things will turn out all right for them!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Oh, this chapter paints such vivid pictures!

We see many portraits of the characters, details and qualities that rise to the surface as they each contribute in their own way. There are two potent images that I find particularly striking in particular, the first one being that of Eowyn facing the WK with his defeated steed at her feet. Tolkien tells us in the midst of the battle “with its [the winged creature’s] fall the shadow passed away. A light fell about her, and her hair shone in the sunrise.” I can see this very clearly in my mind’s eye, a very dramatic snapshot of Eowyn alone, though surrounded by so many. Yet the sun, seemingly so distant, is rising on the rim of the land and she is held, lit by the streaming sunlight. The dawning of some new future.

Another ‘snapshot’ is of Aragorn.

Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, Elessar, Isildur’s heir, out of the Paths of the Dead, bourne upon a wind from the Sea to the kingdom of Gondor….

Did this bring to anyone else’s mind memories of Elendil and his arrival in Middle-earth? As though Gondor has a chance at a new beginning? Note that he was ‘bourne upon wind from the Sea.”

It is also interesting that among the characters that we have been following, the ones who would not be considered ‘key players’ by a military strategist score some impressive victories that are highlighted by Tolkien. Of course I am referring to Eowyn and Merry’s defeat of the WK. It is sad in a way that it over shadows Theoden’s own defeat of the King from Harad. But perhaps this is a good thing as the WK’s defeat is prompted out of love and concern more then duty etc.

Also touching was Eomer’s speech to rally his men even as he grieves.

In short this chapter reminds me of a old painting of a crowded battlefield, and everywhere you look some story is unfolding. All of them important.