Do Balrogs Have Wings?

[Gurthang]

Well, Balrogs have always had wings to me. The whole 'shadow spreading from wall to wall like wings' quote and then one of those threads that Fordim linked for us provided me with more evidence to support my decision.

But I want to point out that wether they have wings or not is not really found in the text. It seems that if we believed that Balrogs did have wings before all these debates, we read all the text in a way that supports our conclusion. Likewise, if we didn't believe before, then we are inclined to see the writings as discounting the possibility. So really, I've always thought they had wings, and I think that any reference would just support my side. Yet that same reference will support the other side, because they will read it so.

So this debate is really just how we have felt from the beginning, not how it really is.

[Bêthberry]

I don't see why balrogs wouldn't have wings, although they might prefer buffalo chips and hamburgers as more substantial fare. Think of the crispy fries!

[Kuruharan]

Does anybody have any idea what Zimmerman's Balrog looked (or would have looked) like?

If we could find that out I think we'd have our answer right there.

Just for the record (even though I think I've said this elsewhere) there are two primary objections I have to Balrog wings.

A) If the Balrog had wings that spread all the way across the 2nd Hall, how did it manage to get those wings into the Chamber of Mazarbul? This “folding” the wings business does not hold water because the Balrog has arms which would be mightily in the way of folding. And even so, hundreds of feet of wingspan are not going to just fold into a nice small package. They would at the very least have to be wrapped around the Balrog several score of times so that it would be essentially tied up. If the Balrog folds the wings on its back rather than its sides that is going to create one Udun of a pile of stuff on his back that is probably not going to easily fit through anything.

Besides if the Balrog has a wingspan a hundred feet wide then they will probably stretch far above its head when folded creating another set of problems in getting through doors.

B) If the Balrog had wings that spread all the way across the 2nd Hall, how did it manage to get the body necessary to support those wings into the Chamber of Mazarbul?

I've never seen a good response to these points. Usually when they are brought up the pro-wingers start humming and hawing and try to change the subject.

If one assumes no wings and a Balrog whose actual body was no more than 10-15 feet tall (and probably at the lower end of that), all problems with interpreting the texts suddenly vanish (like a Balrog falling into an abyss).

Also, I’m not so sure that most of the Fellowship, aside from Gandalf, really got a good look at the thing. It’s chief characteristic was it’s darkness. Darkness is a bit hard to see through. Note that when the Balrog takes a stab at Gandalf, the Fellowship can’t even see it’s flaming sword because of the shadow until it slices at Gandalf. I don’t think they could really see it.

Now, I'm perfectly well aware that all of these things have already been said, however, repetition and beating one's own chest are themes of this type of debate...so there!

EDIT: I used to be a member of the pro-wing camp but I found it impossible to successfully answer the above points and was thus forced to change my position.

[Gurthang]

Here's a new thought that I certainly haven't heard: Shape-shifting.

Beorn in The Hobbit was able to change completely into a bear. A Balrog, presumably a more potent(I use that to mean having more power of spirit or Fea or might, whatever you want to call it) creature than Beorn, could very plausibly 'create' these wings at need and then simply 'uncreate' them to fit into a tight spot. I mean to say that he would simply push his shoulders out to make the wings and then the Balrog would simply shed them away. And since shape-shifting was not unheard of in Middle-Earth, this could easily have happened.

Now, I know you are all shouting 'but a Balrog is stuck in that form!' Well, who's to say that it couldn't slightly alter its form? I mean, what difference would this be from say, reaching out with it's arm? It simply extends part of itself; stretching out sideways, if you will.

Well, I think it would work. I'll just sit back now, and let you all ridicule me for my strange possibility.

[Kuruharan]

The problem with this idea is that when somebody is capable of shape-shifting we know and there is no doubt about it. A shape-shifting Balrog doesn't have any textual support (at least that I can remember off the top of my head).

Hint: The only real problem with the belief that Balrogs don't have wings is how they managed to get to Lammoth from Angband quickly enough to save Morgoth. I admit I find this to be a bit difficult, but I find the problems of space and movement underground to be the decisive factor in the matter.

[HerenIstarion]

My impression is, the winged balrog simply looks cooler, and thus pro-winger camp does not want to give up on such a sweet dude

Giving a little twist to the thread here, let me invite you to follow the link of Hookbill the Goomba's current signature: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ba/Balrogs.jpg

Nice joke, to my liking, but looking at it I've notices also a strange thing dangling behind both figurines, suspiciously resembling no less than a tail!

Wings? Legs? Nope - tail!

I suppose it's tied up with wonderfully wrong 'winged theory' - as flying creature presumably would require some kind of tail for steering, but, gawks, whoever heard about a tail on a balrog? Hang that PJ (not an appeal I usually issue, but that was outrageous! )

[Morsul the Dark]

Ok lets think this through morgoth mocked life right?

Orc=elves
trolls=ents
balrogs=???dragons possibly

if this is true we can assume balrogs have wings on the basis that dragons(most notibly smaug) had wings and as for wing folding that depepends on the wing strutcure it could indeed fold quite tiughtly though i do agree that is a dangerous blow to the wing theory however considering a balrog flight is quitew possible with wings thinking it through most biords ride on air current which has to do with hot air and such doesnt the bakrid provide its own rising heat to glide upon.

Scientificly speaking were looking at raptor like wings made for gliding not so much flapping which would make them more leathery and in fact thinner because there would be less need for muscle in the wing which in turn would make it easier for the wings to be folded into smaller area of space.

Another thing however against wings is the fact that balrogs live underground(Im talking moria if you know more about other balrog locals please tell me) and if all balrogs were to live mainly underground isnt it in fact useless to form with wings.

However no conclusion ever will be reached I myself believe balrogs have wings.

I'm just thinking about this and I voted that the balrogs do have wings; but not necessarily can fly. If I remember correctly; when the Balrog attacks it gets described as having wings at one point.Don't quote me as I don't have the books with me. But a question that is getting asked is if the wings worked. If they did work why couldn't he just fly away from Gandalf in mid-air while they are falling. I don't think everyone will ever be happy with the answer.