By george dwarves are british, i think - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 08-24-2005, 12:52 PM

That depends on which stage of conception we're talking about. The Dwarf-runes used in The Hobbit are unquestionably of the Anglo-Saxon type, and Tolkien confirms it:

Quote:

There is the matter of the Runes. Those used by Thorin and Co., for special purposes, were comprised in an alphabet of thirty-two letters... similar to, but not identical, with the runes of Anglo-Saxon inscriptions.

Letter #25, to the editor of the Observer, printed 20 February 1938

Earlier he is less circumspect:

Quote:

...except for the runes (Anglo-Saxon) and the dwarf-names (Icelandic), neither used with antiquarian accuracy, and both regretfully substituted to avoid abstruseness for the genuine alphabets and names of the mythology into which Mr Baggins intrudes - I am afraid my professional knowledge is not directly used.

Letter #15, remarks included with a letter to Allen and Unwin, 31 August 1937.

The Angerthas is Tolkien's own invention, although obviously inspired by the runes of the Futhark. Basically (and rather too simply) the Anglo-Saxon and Norse runes are descended from the same alphabet. There's more than one Scandinavian runic alphabet, but for an explanation of them all you need a runologist. There are plenty of rune sites on the web, but if it isn't a university you can't trust it.

Thinlómien · 08-25-2005, 06:52 AM

I would rather associate khuzdul with russian language... They somehow sound the same...

Lobelia · 09-05-2005, 09:04 PM

Actually, the English runes are only used in THE HOBBIT. By the time we read the runes on Balin's tomb in LOTR, they're - well, not English any more. I remember being rather annoyed that I couldn't read the inscription.

I think what Tolkien said (elsewhere?) was that he only thought of Dwarves as Jews because of being scattered and having a language they only speak among themselves. In fact, if there's anything Semitic about the language, it's not Hebrew anyway, or even remotely Hebrew, unless you count the throaty sound of Kh, and there are other languages that have this sound.

08-25-2005, 06:52 AM	#2
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I would rather associate khuzdul with russian language... They somehow sound the same... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

09-05-2005, 09:04 PM	#3
Lobelia Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 150	Actually, the English runes are only used in THE HOBBIT. By the time we read the runes on Balin's tomb in LOTR, they're - well, not English any more. I remember being rather annoyed that I couldn't read the inscription. I think what Tolkien said (elsewhere?) was that he only thought of Dwarves as Jews because of being scattered and having a language they only speak among themselves. In fact, if there's anything Semitic about the language, it's not Hebrew anyway, or even remotely Hebrew, unless you count the throaty sound of Kh, and there are other languages that have this sound.