3 + 9, x (7+12) Divided by Eleventy-one... oh dear

[Mithalwen]

I saw one of those gruesome "Their hands in your life" style hospital watch programmes a few years ago and a surgeon was fitting a heart valve while being questioned by a particularly inane presenter. When asked how many knots he used the Surgeon replied seven and when asked why he replied that it was because it meant completeness in Hebrew.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Don't really have anything to add to this discussion except to say that there were eight palantiri, not seven. Granted, only seven made it to Middle-earth.

There, that clears everything up, doesn't it?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Don't really have anything to add to this discussion except to say that there were eight palantiri, not seven. Granted, only seven made it to Middle-earth.

You're joking, right? You had better be joking, because we're messing around with the rescue of the palantiri in Prisoner of Numenor rpg, and if this is so, it messes everything up! .... that is, as long as we're trying to be canonical. You, um, are joking, aren't you?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I thought we had Canonicity safely shipped off to Mordor. With her gone, there's naught to worry about.

On a more serious (and slightly more related) note... there were eight palantirs!?! Are you sure? I always thought... "seven stars, seven stones, one white tree". Did I miss out on something?
And speaking of numbers... is there a biblical importance for "9"? We've got our holy trinity of elven rings, our perfect number of dwarven rings, our ultimate power source of one ring... and then nine. Interesting though, that the "holy trinity" bit goes to the Elves, who are more spiritual beings than Man. The "perfect number" goes to the perfectionists that are dwarves, and the "one" is for the one force that can make or break existance in Middle Earth.

[Shelob]

"is there a biblical importance for "9"?" ~Feanor of the Peredhil

I'm not sure of a biblical importance...but again 9 is three sets of three (three squared)...a trinity of trinities...so on and so forth...rather special in that way...

Though as for it's use specifically with the rings I always assumed it was so that they added up to 20.
3+7=10
1+9=10
10+10=20

Is there any special importance in 20 then? Or, specifically with the rings again, is there any importance to the fact that the halfs (the sets of ten) were elf/dwarf and Sauron/man? (though that second question's probably more off-topic than should be discussed here.)

[Angry Hill Troll]

On a more serious (and slightly more related) note... there were eight palantirs!?! Are you sure? I always thought... "seven stars, seven stones, one white tree". Did I miss out on something?

Well, seven or eight palantiri could be considered canonical. In the Palantiri section of UT, CT notes that in some of his father's manuscripts on the subject, it is mentioned that there is a Master Stone in Tol Eressëa. Presumably this was used by the elves to communicate with the Faithful of Númenor. Also, since it was Fëanor who made the palantiri, and having seven sons, it seems logical that he would have had one for himself as a sort of family intercom system.

But, CT mentions that in other of JRRT's manuscripts, there is no mention of the Master Stone. So it's back to the old question of which unpublished manuscript which Tolkien left should be considered Canonical. In any event only 7 palantiri ever came to Middle-earth.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Angry Hill Troll

In any event only 7 palantiri ever came to Middle-earth.

And therefore only 7 palantiri ever were in Númenor. Thanks for the clarification.