The Root of all Evil.

[drigel]

It's an interesting subject.

Would the Ring have been as strong/potent/powerful if it had been made of, oh say, Mithril?

I would say (if one subscribes to the idea that mithril is M-free) that mabye a ring of power would be less apt for evil purposes, more potent for benevolent use..?..?

Martinez' was also proposing in his essay the idea that that the reason dragons hoarded gold (and gems etc.) was that they sustained themselves on it. I suppose the thought being that laying on a big pile of gold, a dragon could absorb some of the M element..?..?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Gold itself isn't evil, but those who desire it to get filthy rich are. (B88)

On the thing with Galadriel's "golden hair" . . . (B88)

These two quotes came to me together, and it hit me. Would Fëanor's future greedy love for the Silmarilli stem from his desire to get the gold (and silver) light--from Galadriel's hair, for example?

I remember that from his speech before the Noldor of the Fish--I mean Túna--he said something like, "When we recover the Silmarils from Morgoth, we alone shall be masters of the unsullied light." What, is light a marketable commodity now, too? What's with this greed for light?

[Eledhewin Ilanora]

well ok..the root of evil in LOTR is gold? You mean gold ring eg.?

Now arent that just like scraping the surface? I mean are Sauron & Saruman and others craving for the gold? How bout the uruks & orcs?

Lets talk about Gollum? Do you think he was tuned into an evil being for gold?

Nope.i believe the root of evil in LOTR is the greed for power. Power to control, power to manipulate, Power to destroy, Power to be invincible and untouchable etc etc.

Power!!!!!!

[Ainaserkewen]

Evil for me has always been defined by two words: Vanity and corruption.

Gold, and power for that matter, would play towards vanity and be corruptive I suppose.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Eledhewin Ilanora

Lets talk about Gollum? Do you think he was tuned into an evil being for gold?
Nope.i believe the root of evil in LOTR is the greed for power. Power to control, power to manipulate, Power to destroy, Power to be invincible and untouchable etc etc.Power!!!!!!

I have to differ a little about Gollum. It was the gold that caused him to murder Deagol in the first place but it was not power. Even he didn't try to usurp his grandmother when he had the ring.

Originally Posted by Nuranar

The key operator there is that the money itself isn't the problem. It's the untoward lust for it that leads to evil.

It all leads back to lust (of whatever). Smeagol lusted the ring itself and murdered then he lusted secrets to use against his own kin that led to his outcast.
Even 'power' is not listed in the 7 deadliest sins because 'power' can be used for good, but 'lust' is listed becausae anything we desire to obsession is never good.

[Nuranar]

Power and money (or gold) aren't synonymous - but it's remarkable how closely related they are. We all want more money than we've got; if you had it, what would you do with it? Buy things. Keep increasing the money and you can buy more and bigger things, and eventually you can buy anything. If that's all money can do, why are there so many multi-millionaires? With great money comes great power. And power leads to more money. They support each other.

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

Even 'power' is not listed in the 7 deadliest sins because 'power' can be used for good, but 'lust' is listed becausae anything we desire to obsession is never good.

Very good point. Power itself, like money, is no evil; after all, try to abolish power and you abolish government. (Some might argue that's not a bad thing - but anarchy puts power in the hands of the rich, forceful, and/or physically strong. Power doesn't just disappear.) It's the abuse of power that's the problem: tyranny, oppression, injustice, cruelty. And the love of money can be a root of that particular evil.

Are there any instances of a rise to power taking place without money and not resulting in wealth?

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nuranar

Are there any instances of a rise to power taking place without money and not resulting in wealth?

How about Gandhi..... of course such people are so dangerous they get killed... they subvert the way the world works too much .......

I think power is bound up with freedom. We want freedom but exercising our freedom often makes other people less free - "Freedom without justice grows up into slavery"

[Nuranar]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I think power is bound up with freedom. We want freedom but exercising our freedom often makes other people less free

I remember reading how the U.S. founders really struggled with the idea of greater freedom. For me, "freedom" and "liberty" don't mean quite the same thing. To me, liberty implies less control, both external and personal. The next step is license. Witness the French Revolution. It's the paradox that true freedom isn't possible without the rule of law. Power isn't going to go away; it's just a question of distributing it in the best way for everyone.

I think we're wandering a bit, though. *blush*

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, why does Tolkien choose gold to tie in with "evil?" What is it specifically about gold that Tolkien says it tends to have an evil trend? And why is Silver not evil? What makes it pure and good and not connected to evil the way gold is?

We've established that it's not the gold/money/valuable itself that's evi. And Mithalwen pointed out that silver and gold aren't necessarily opposites, just valued and used differently. So it's either Morgoth's power within gold, or the elemental lust for gold, that leads to evil. I personally still hold to the second; gold is not always a definite force for evil, whereas when it does seem to cause problems, there's a definite someone who's wanting it too badly.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

The most notable conflicts were over jewels (Silmarils, Arkenstone..)

This supports the original quote: The love of money is A root of all kinds of evil. The Silmarils and the Arkenstone were not evil in and of themselves. Perhaps their value and worth cast a "spell" of sorts. But in the end, conflict came about because of people who desired them beyond wisdom or reason. In Tolkien's world, perhaps the love of great jewels is another root of evil.