The mouth of Sauron

[The Only Real Estel]

Exactly. There must be another good two, three threads with a lot of posts on them, though I haven't the time to find them & link to them right now.

Or maybe I'm just lazy.

[Essex]

of course there are more threads - i'm arguing on two of them at the moment about the same thing.

But the reason why the good guys are the good guys is that they are a rung above the bad guys on the "Edicate Ladder." In the books they had no real way of knowing for sure that it was a trap so they couldn't have used your reasoning there. In the movie, we presume that the future King of Gondor will have enough self control to endure a few taunts and not react like the stereotypical bad guy would.

to answer your first point. "goodies and baddies" is not black and white in Arda. If there's one thing I've learnt from the books, there is no overall 'good' (or bad for that matter). Take the elves and the kinslaying for example.

your second point. in the movie I put it to you that Aragorn did not kill the MoS because of his taunts, but because the people of the West were losing Hope. the MoS was defeating them with his words. He had to be stopped. It's as simple as that. In the book Aragorn helped to do this with a look, but that just wouldn't work in this film, so he lopped his head off.

[Bandobras Took]

Also you could try scape goat (but he is not on very often) he is very very good.

[The Perky Ent]

Here's something I just noticed: In the movie, the Mouth of Sauron says

Originally Posted by Mouth of Sauron

And who is this? Isildur's heir? It takes more than a king with a broken elvish blade to- *die*

...broken elvish blade? But...didn't Telchar, the DWARF smith make Narsil? Hmm....I guess it's just another one to be added to the infinite pile of errors in the movie! Happy Hunting!

[Lord Melkor]

Originally Posted by The Perky Ent

Here's something I just noticed: In the movie, the Mouth of Sauron says

...broken elvish blade? But...didn't Telchar, the DWARF smith make Narsil? Hmm....I guess it's just another one to be added to the infinite pile of errors in the movie! Happy Hunting!

Of course that could be explained by saying that the Mouth of Sauron did not know who made the blade, only that it was used by the elves. As such it is not unreasonable for him to assume that the blade was crafted by the Noldor.

[The Perky Ent]

I guess that's him. All mouth and no brain. I'd prefer meeting the Ear of Sauron. He wouldn't mouth off at me, and he'd just listen to my demands. And when he's done listening, I can have the satisfaction of hearing Legolas say :" Look! The messenger only has ears! ". You'd think I'd react with a , but when you've know him as long as I have, it's more of an

[Boromir88]

your second point. in the movie I put it to you that Aragorn did not kill the MoS because of his taunts, but because the people of the West were losing Hope. the MoS was defeating them with his words. He had to be stopped. It's as simple as that. In the book Aragorn helped to do this with a look, but that just wouldn't work in this film, so he lopped his head off.~Essex

That still doesn't mean anything. Even in the unhonorable times of war we live in now, directors show they can understand that you couldn't kill a messenger (Tolkien understood this too and he fought in the first war where really it wasn't honorable any more).

Prior to WW1 wars were seen as a "Gentleman's war." With rules that each side followed because it was considered the honorable way to fight. Directors of Troy, Braveheart, Gladiator, King Arthur...etc all show they understood this concept. You can't kill a messenger.

If the MoS was using words to defeat people then Aragorn needs to use words back to send him away cowering, like Tolkien shows. Clearly stated within the books (as well as Kuru's sig), he could not be assailed. No matter how vile, low, or cruel the MoS may have stooped with his words, you can't kill a messenger. He's not there to fight, he's there to deliver terms and may not be assailed.

Let me take some common day examples. I don't know what it's like in England but in the US if someone breaks in your house you can't kill them and say it's self defense. You may only use a force equal to that of the attacker. So if a guy breaks in your house, there's no fear for your life, he has no weapon, no fear that he's there to kill you just rob you, you can't kill him and claim self-defense. Now if he had a gun and he was pointing it at you, then of course you are afraid he's going to kill you and therefor can take the proper action in defending yourself. So, it's this concept that you can only use the amount of force that is equal to that of the attacker. Even without this, still the bottomline is you can't kill a messenger.

In this case, the MoS was using word, Aragorn can use words back. I prefer the banter that went on to the three seconds of talking and "off with your head."