LOTR Survivor

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Are you insinuating that Elladan and Elrohir, because they- alone among the Elves-truly loved and chose to stay with their Mannish kindred out of love, perhaps because in the end they chose to become Men, they were somehow more dangerous, somehow more "lethal" than those ordinary, lofty, selfish Elves?

And, as far as Isildur goes, I'm certain that Elrond and Cirdan combined could have taken him, had they REALLY wanted to. 2 to 1 odds... But no, the Elves didn't want to mess up their pretty hair.

No I am pointing out that they loved them so much that the chieftains of the Dunedain seemed to come to sticky ends in their company..... draw your own conclusions and their choice was not known...... I believe in the letters it says it was deferred...

And Elrond and Cirdan clearly believe in free will.. goodness knows what you would have said if they had forced him

[Folwren]

Originally posted by TGWBS:
I would like to point out that Sam abandoned Rosie and his little kiddies to go to Valinor too. (And no, their not being ringbearers is not a valid excuse.)

You are so going down for that, short guy. Villainous rogue. We're not talking about Sam here. You got him booted a long time ago. I'm terribly glad that I got Bilbo gone before too long.

And he did not abandon Rosie. If he were as faithless as all that - as faithless as Celeborn - he might have left her and gone directly with Frodo. Instead he stayed in the Shire, with his wife, and had kids. He brought them up, he saw them married. He remained faithful unto death. Then when she went, he knew his time had come. His children were no longer dependent on him. They weren't 'little kiddies' any more.

But don't worry. We still have time. Time enough to counter all these elf feinds who want Celeborn here still..........

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

And he did not abandon Rosie. If he were as faithless as all that - as faithless as Celeborn - he might have left her and gone directly with Frodo. Instead he stayed in the Shire, with his wife, and had kids.

-- Folwren

Waht - he wanted to go with Frodo - he didn't give Rosie and Elanor a moment's thought at the Havens - Frodo had to tell him to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whereas it says in Home that it was perfectly normal for ELves to be apart at time once their children were grown. Someone had to wind up the realm.... duty not choice I deem.

[Kath]

++CELEBORN

Why, you ask? Well I was requested to vote in this manner by a concerned citizen of Middle Earth and I thought that if this person was so desperate that it warranted bringing in outsiders (I have never posted in here before) it was worth taking a look at. Also, it seems to me that I would have a nice bargaining tool if I ever wanted something from them!

Oh, and on the subject of Sam, go TGWBS! But we should perhaps avoid bringing remnants of the Favourite Hobbit discussion into this thread.

[Folwren]

Originally posted by Mithalwen:
Waht - he wanted to go with Frodo - he didn't give Rosie and Elanor a moment's thought at the Havens - Frodo had to tell him to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read the chapter again. Sam knew immediately that he couldn't go.

'Where are you going, Master?' cried Sam, though at last he understood.

'To the Havens, Sam,' said Frodo

'And I can't come.'

No questions - no begging. Just sudden realization that he and his master were going to be seperated. Sudden and heart-rending, though quiet and simple. Sam loved his Master, but he also loved Rosie, and he'd married her, and there wasn't a question in his mind about leaving her.

I'm not going to argue any further. The fact that you people even try to attack Sam in his moment of absolute grief is beyond my grasp of reasoning, and I find it depressing and horrible in itself. Revolting, even. As though you had laughed at some child lost in a crowd.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Read the chapter again. Sam knew immediately that he couldn't go.



No questions - no begging. Just sudden realization that he and his master were going to be seperated. Sudden and heart-rending, though quiet and simple. Sam loved his Master, but he also loved Rosie, and he'd married her, and there wasn't a question in his mind about leaving her.

I'm not going to argue any further. The fact that you people even try to attack Sam in his moment of absolute grief is beyond my grasp of reasoning, and I find it depressing and horrible in itself. Revolting, even. As though you had laughed at some child lost in a crowd.

-- Folwren

Rubbish he understood where Frodo was going not that he couldn't go ... he didn't give a toss about her at that point ... I think it is scummy that he didn't.. Poor Rosie ... always second best... and 13 children .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Folwren]

By Mithalwen:
Rubbish he understood where Frodo was going not that he couldn't go ... he didn't give a toss about her at that point ... I think it is scummy that he didn't.. Poor Rosie ... always second best... and 13 children .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I'm not arguing - I'm not arguing - I'm not arguing...I'm not arguing............

I will not argue this point out with you!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Anquirel:
EDIT: Okay. I've seen Kath's post. The opposition are bribing and coercing voters! Boro, this is clear abuse of the system! Exert your wise justice!

She wasn't bribed. She didn't say she was, anyway. She was 'reguested to'. Reguested means, asked to. Not bribed to. Let Celeborn go down!!

-- Folwren

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Kath

Also, it seems to me that I would have a nice bargaining tool if I ever wanted something from them!

That's corruption if you ask me...leverage...