The Silmarillion Survivor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anguirel · 10-13-2005, 09:50 AM

The Voice of Mandos confirms: Celegorm and Curufin, actually...but your point holds...

But there is no proof for your slanderous suggestion of Curufin's thievery. House Feanor have undying loyalty to each other. Why would this favoured son steal from his own father?

mormegil · 10-13-2005, 10:10 AM

Everybody this is the perfect time to get rid of Feanor. The silmarils have been created and if the trees are destroyed we can perhaps save them. Also getting rid of such a hot-headed jerk would save his wonderful sons Maedrhos and Maglor from entering into that awful oath and preventing the curse of the Noldor. I think it's time for this one trick pony to be put out to stud.

++Feanor

plus he never did a good job of defending the trees.

Anguirel · 10-13-2005, 10:26 AM

Ungoliant: 1
Manwe: 1
Ingwe: 3
Curufin: 1
Feanor: 1

Looks like the camp against idle blonde pretty Elves is more united than the camp against brooding, dark Byronic Elves...

the guy who be short · 10-13-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

The first challenge-HORTICULTURE. Look after the island's source of light, the Two Trees. Make sure they're tended and watered properly and that no vandals can hurt them.

Hmm. Now who can we possibly think of that may be described as a vandal, or who may want to destroy the trees - and fail the task?

++Ungoliant.

the phantom · 10-13-2005, 10:52 AM

I'm shocked that you would even consider voting off poor Feanor!

The text makes it quite clear that Melkor's primary goal was to ruin Feanor-

Quote:

he sought ever more eagerly how he should destroy Feanor

And a mere elf obviously has no chance of fully resisting Melkor's will. Even the Valar knew it. They told Feanor "none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Ea, not though Eru who thou namest had made thee thrice greater than thou art."

How could you possibly blame Feanor for being influenced by the greatest being in all of the world?! Even Hurin the Steadfast saw all things crooked after spending a while in Melkor's presence.

The only difference is, Melian reached out and helped Hurin. Feanor, on the other hand, was not helped, but was actually punished by the Valar! Punished, for being influenced by Ea's most powerful being! There is NO justification for such a punishment.

And why, I ask you, was Melkor free to spread his lies and sow discord in the world?

Because the Valar let him loose amongst the Elves!

The Valar deal proudly and incorrectly far too often! I think that we should definitely get rid of one of them.

I think Manwe in particular should be given the boot.

Tolkien has this to say about Manwe, in HoME X-

Quote:

He (Manwë) has become engrossed (partly out of sheer fear of Melkor, partly out of desire to control him) in amendment, healing, re-ordering-- even "keeping the status quo"- to the loss of all creative power, and even to weakness in dealing with difficult and perilous situations.

Is that the sort of person you want to keep around to perform tasks?

+ + Manwe has to go!

Anguirel · 10-13-2005, 11:00 AM

A sudden flurry of controversy...

Ungoliant: 2
Manwe: 2
Ingwe: 3
Curufin: 2
Feanor: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothmog

I've never liked Caranthir. Just listen to the "surname" the Dark.

Clear signs of prejudice from this villainous Balrog!

Quote:

And the most despicable act of all was Curufin, beaten in battle by Beren, behind Berens back aiming and shooting, not one but TWO arrows at Luthien.

Yeah, well, her lovey-dovey singing and his whining were getting irritating. I would've done the same. Beren hardly played fair jumping on Curufin's neck, so shooting him in the back is an adequate response. And really, anything is acceptable to stop Little Miss Omnipotent.

Quote:

revenge is a critical threat to the good atmosphere on the island.

And makes for good viewing!

I'm tempted to switch to Manwe, but only if my fellow anti-Ingweists give the go-ahead...

The Perky Ent · 10-13-2005, 11:08 AM

++Feanor

I shall continue my wrath against Feanor until the end of time (or until he gets voted off)

Useful votes: 11
Useless votes: 1

mormegil · 10-13-2005, 11:14 AM

So we are opposed to voting off Feanor because it's not his fault he's a prat but we will kick Ingwe off because he was actually loyal and obedient and Melkor found that they could not be twisted to his evil ways so he more or less left them alone. Interesting!

Ingwe is great, I think he is rather one of the more intelligent of the elves. He never faltered in his decisions and he held his people together. They were able to live in happiness because they never left Valinor. He sounds like a great ruler to me.

Gothmog · 10-13-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Clear signs of prejudice from this villainous Balrog!

Just look at that!

Talking about prejudice and in the next breath assuming a Balrog beeing something by nature evil? How about a good Balrog? We are just misunderstood. I despise this kind of this...in lack of a better word inconsistent behaviour!

So you don't like women, do you Anguirel? A bit sexist, eh? Well, this reality tvshow already has too much men in it. I mean, you talk about what makes good viewing. Think of all the flirting, intrigues and love triangels could be created if some more women were allowed. That usually draws a lot of viewers to this kind of show.

And accuse Beren of being a coward. I lack of words! Oh wait, here they come: He jumped on Curufin's neck AFTER Curufin took Luthien. Attacking women!

Plus, he jumped away from Celegorms attack and:

Quote:

and the Leap of Beren is renowned among Men and Elves.

I agree that part of the blame for the trees being destroyed is Valars. But wouldn't it be wiser to vote on someone else than Manwe? I think he may be of great use later.

Formendacil · 10-13-2005, 11:11 AM

I think we need to get rid of Curufin. The main reason being that there is a good deal of confusion in Valinor. Since we're all still speaking Quenya, Curufinwe is the name of two Elves, and that is a confusion that is most befuddling...

Therefore, to eliminate this nasty little confusion, I am voting...

++Curufinwe the Younger

Gothmog · 10-13-2005, 10:49 AM

As I see it there's more than one tactic here.

One way to do this is to look at the task ahead and vote in a way which simplifies the dealing with it.

An other path to choose is to look further in to the future and try to eliminate possible threats to the other survivors in the long run. Or vote off those least needed on the island.

I would like to go for a combination. If we vote Manwe off, I'm sure the Valar would be quite upset and the chaos following when there's no natural leader might lead to a fight for the power. I guess both Ulmo and Aule wouldn't mind the title of King, not to mention about Melkor. And Varda might claim the title too, being the foremost among Queens with a strong support from the elves (O Elbereth!).

Ungoliant seems like the easy option, but is it to easy? Can she (it) be of use later?

There's some good reasons to vote Ingwe out. What good did he ever do? Spoiled children, all of those Vanyar... But on the other hand they didn't do any harm either. Rather vote Amarië than Ingwe however. What kind of woman stays at home when her beloved migrates to an other continent? bah...

I could go for Ingwe, but i think I'll...yes it has to be one of the 3 evil C's: Celegorm, Caranthir or Curufin. I've never liked Caranthir. Just listen to the "surname" the Dark. But it was Celegorm and Curufin that first imprisoned Luthien and then attacked Beren and Luthien in the woods. And the most despicable act of all was Curufin, beaten in battle by Beren, behind Berens back aiming and shooting, not one but TWO arrows at Luthien.

Therefore: ++Curufin.

He of no help regarding the "tree-quest" and he did a lot of things nobody would be proud of. I think the brothers thirst for power and revenge is a critical threat to the good atmosphere on the island.

Plus they always eats more than their share of rice

10-13-2005, 09:50 AM	#1
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	The Voice of Mandos confirms: Celegorm and Curufin, actually...but your point holds... But there is no proof for your slanderous suggestion of Curufin's thievery. House Feanor have undying loyalty to each other. Why would this favoured son steal from his own father? __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

10-13-2005, 10:10 AM	#2
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Everybody this is the perfect time to get rid of Feanor. The silmarils have been created and if the trees are destroyed we can perhaps save them. Also getting rid of such a hot-headed jerk would save his wonderful sons Maedrhos and Maglor from entering into that awful oath and preventing the curse of the Noldor. I think it's time for this one trick pony to be put out to stud. ++Feanor plus he never did a good job of defending the trees. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

10-13-2005, 10:26 AM	#3
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Votes Ungoliant: 1 Manwe: 1 Ingwe: 3 Curufin: 1 Feanor: 1 Looks like the camp against idle blonde pretty Elves is more united than the camp against brooding, dark Byronic Elves... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

10-13-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	++Feanor I shall continue my wrath against Feanor until the end of time (or until he gets voted off) Useful votes: 11 Useless votes: 1 __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

10-13-2005, 11:14 AM	#8
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	So we are opposed to voting off Feanor because it's not his fault he's a prat but we will kick Ingwe off because he was actually loyal and obedient and Melkor found that they could not be twisted to his evil ways so he more or less left them alone. Interesting! Ingwe is great, I think he is rather one of the more intelligent of the elves. He never faltered in his decisions and he held his people together. They were able to live in happiness because they never left Valinor. He sounds like a great ruler to me. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

10-13-2005, 11:11 AM	#10
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	I think we need to get rid of Curufin. The main reason being that there is a good deal of confusion in Valinor. Since we're all still speaking Quenya, Curufinwe is the name of two Elves, and that is a confusion that is most befuddling... Therefore, to eliminate this nasty little confusion, I am voting... ++Curufinwe the Younger __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

10-13-2005, 10:49 AM	#11
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	Joining survivor for the first time... As I see it there's more than one tactic here. One way to do this is to look at the task ahead and vote in a way which simplifies the dealing with it. An other path to choose is to look further in to the future and try to eliminate possible threats to the other survivors in the long run. Or vote off those least needed on the island. I would like to go for a combination. If we vote Manwe off, I'm sure the Valar would be quite upset and the chaos following when there's no natural leader might lead to a fight for the power. I guess both Ulmo and Aule wouldn't mind the title of King, not to mention about Melkor. And Varda might claim the title too, being the foremost among Queens with a strong support from the elves (O Elbereth!). Ungoliant seems like the easy option, but is it to easy? Can she (it) be of use later? There's some good reasons to vote Ingwe out. What good did he ever do? Spoiled children, all of those Vanyar... But on the other hand they didn't do any harm either. Rather vote Amarië than Ingwe however. What kind of woman stays at home when her beloved migrates to an other continent? bah... I could go for Ingwe, but i think I'll...yes it has to be one of the 3 evil C's: Celegorm, Caranthir or Curufin. I've never liked Caranthir. Just listen to the "surname" the Dark. But it was Celegorm and Curufin that first imprisoned Luthien and then attacked Beren and Luthien in the woods. And the most despicable act of all was Curufin, beaten in battle by Beren, behind Berens back aiming and shooting, not one but TWO arrows at Luthien. Therefore: ++Curufin. He of no help regarding the "tree-quest" and he did a lot of things nobody would be proud of. I think the brothers thirst for power and revenge is a critical threat to the good atmosphere on the island. Plus they always eats more than their share of rice __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...