The Silmarillion Survivor

[Anguirel]

Incest? Pah. A bit of cousinage is nothing. The father's side of my family is riddled with it!

Besides, Tolkien's statement of the Elven condemnation of incest (or simply relationships between cousins) is pretty contradictory.

There she was often in the company of the sons of Feanor, her kin; but to none was her heart's love given.

Implies it could have been, does it not? Besides, I feel things came pretty close, particularly with Celegorm, a fellow hunter whom she was searching for eagerly when she strayed into Nan Elmoth.

Then there is Celebrimbor's unrequited love for Galadriel-a cousin and a generation older than him.

Finally-and this one actually occurred-Arwen did indeed "wed to kin so near", indeed, was required to do so by fate to reconcile the bloodlines of the Eldar and Edain. She was Aragorn's great-great-and-the-rest-of-'em-aunt!

I implore that Morgoth not be voted off, incidentally. Remember the viewing figures. A warning again-if Morgoth goes, more than one Valar will fill his power vacuum...it would be a mere short-term victory. Vote for the irritating and pretentious Eonwe!

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I implore that Morgoth not be voted off, incidentally.

If you ask me, our beloved AngMod has been having far too easy a time of it recently. I think that it's time to start making things a little hard for him.

Originally Posted by Ang

Remember the viewing figures.

In my view, a scramble for leadership of the dark forces would make fascinating viewing.

Originally Posted by Ang

A warning again-if Morgoth goes, more than one Valar will fill his power vacuum...it would be a mere short-term victory.

Even better for the audience figures. Evil never permits itself to be led by committee. There can only be one Dark Lord. A showdown between two or more renegade Valar for the top spot would provide even greater entertainment. And, while the candidates were vying for Dark Lordship, the denizens of Beleriand would have even more time to organise their resistance.

[Anguirel]

This is awful! At this rate, the Silmarillion will have a completely happy ending! Prevent this literary banditry!

Must I remind everyone that with no Morgoth, we will have no amusing Curse upon the Children of Hurin?

And Saucie, leadership contests among evil aren't that interesting because all the candidates have similar methods, aims and characters. Dominate and/or destroy the world-that's it.

Now power vacuums on the good side are more interesting, because we know details about the psyche of different candidates and there is real variation. If a leader has to go

--EONWE

then let it be

++TURGON. Then the armies of Gondolin will come to the aid of Men. Maybe.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

At this rate, the Silmarillion will have a completely happy ending!

Ah, but it's your job to prevent that happening, Ang. And I don't see why we should make it easy for you.

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

This is awful! At this rate, the Silmarillion will have a completely happy ending! Prevent this literary banditry!

Must I remind everyone that with no Morgoth, we will have no amusing Curse upon the Children of Hurin?

And Saucie, leadership contests among evil aren't that interesting because all the candidates have similar methods, aims and characters. Dominate and/or destroy the world-that's it.

Now power vacuums on the good side are more interesting, because we know details about the psyche of different candidates and there is real variation. If a leader has to go

--EONWE

then let it be

++TURGON. Then the armies of Gondolin will come to the aid of Men. Maybe.

As you can see, I repented...

EDIT: I added the vote in an edit, so you could easily not have seen it...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Now let's get on with the serious work of ejecting Turgon instead of poor maligned Morgy.

The real question here is whether we are bound by the fate decreed by the AngMod, or whether we, as viewers and voters, have free will ...

[Anguirel]

Free will? Tchah! What a ludicrous notion!

Actually, I think the phantom has his way far more often than I do. He's scarcely backed a candidate that hasn't been evicted...he operates after nightfall and sways the masses...

[Lalaith]

No I didn't see it.
Hmmm....everybody was being so convincing about Morgoth - but Ang you're right about the curse, I don't want to go without my Narn three-hankie moment.

I'm now wondering if the Turgon eviction shouldn't wait until *after* he turns his back on Hurin. That would be a fitting punishment and then he could mope about the halls of Mandos thinking for ever more about what a wretched ingrate he was.
What do you think?

[Gothmog]

Saucepan Man:

If you ask me, our beloved AngMod has been having far too easy a time of it recently. I think that it's time to start making things a little hard for him.

I've been giving him an hard time from the start, but it has resulted in nothing so far. But now I'm back from a 1 day break and prepared to take up the fight once more

Thou speakest truly wise, the sauciest of panmen... A fight between to rivaling dark forces would be quite spectacular. So let's do like the romans, give the masses blood.

arcticstorm:

I have been trying to treat a symptom without tackeling the sickness.

And this is something I've been trying to explain days ago. There's a risk that, like the hydra, two heads will grow out to replace the one we cut off, but still that will buy us time enough to organize a defence consisting of the free people of ME. Also, the diminished risk of valar and maia falling to the dark side has to be taken into consideration.

Morgoth is the source to all evil powers, it's he who created monsters like dragons and Carcharoth. Maybe we can prevent the creation of some dark creatures? For example, has anyone seen Ancalagon and his fellow winged dragons yet? No!

Therefor, lets stop evil in its path. It will create disorder in the ranks and a battle of the inheritance of the title as the most evil, wretched creature in Arda will begin.

++Morgoth Bauglir

Vote the only possible way! Vote for the foe of the world, all ours enemy nr 1! Vote for Melko!

[Anguirel]

Votes

Sauron-1
Thingol-1
Morgoth-3
Turgon-1

[Lalaith]

So let's do like the romans,

#

well given that Ang is already trying to make like the ancient Egyptians, why not?

[Gothmog]

I'm sorry if I'm being slow here but: exactly what part of the ancient Egyptians doings are we talking about here? Not put 200 layers of bandage on people I guess? Or building those giant triangular, pointed houses with to thick walls and to few windows?

[Lalaith]

The part where they married their siblings...(I'm just teasing him btw, I know it's not the same thing)

[Anguirel]

I believe Lalaith takes issue with my flawless defence of Elves canonically marrying cousins...and hence refers you to the Ptolemies (who were in fact, of course, Greek...no hard feelings Lalaith)

[Lalaith]

No hard feelings at all, sweetie...especially as the Ptolemies were in their marriage customs merely adhering to old Egyptian customs...Rameses II for example married his sister and three of his daughters.

But this is all becoming not only most unedifying but also dangerously off topic.

[Lord Melkor]

Since the Dark Lord Himself is now under attack I have no alternative but to change my vote and call for the removal of Turgon. I mean, sure, a new Dark Lord may arise, but who has the style, the panache, the 'je-ne-sais-quoi?' of Melkor, first and foremost of all the Valar? And who, pray tell, has the personality and intelligence to replace him?

Varda: If I recall correctly she is jockeying for Manwe's position. Boring personality.

Yavanna: Too busy tending her precious trees, besides, being the Dark Lady would entail ruining all life. Obviously unsuitable.

Aule: Hmmm, interesting and the best choice (though still a far cry from Melkor). Still, he doesn't have Melkor's flair, though it would be funny if the Dwarves would follow their Maker and start fighting for the bad guys. I reckon Sauron would have no problems adapting to Aule's lordship and good old Curumo can come into his own as well. Still, Aule lacks the single thing that all Dark Lords should have: Style and class. I also reckon he is not nearly as smart as Melkor.

Tulkas: Too stupid.

Ulmo: Too non-descript.

Mandos: Mandos actively promoting his Doom? How amusing, but once again I say this candidate is too non-descript.

Nienna: Crybaby, therefore unsuitable for the position.

Orome: Too non-descript.

Face it people, the Valar are a bunch of weakwilled personalities, with Melkor being the one glorious exception. I'd say stick with him and allow him to stir things up so the game stays interesting. Remove him and before we know it we'll be reading about happy elves dancing around a tree. Boooooring! Melkor's keeps the game alive.

Furthermore, removing Melkor will only temporarily alleviate the attacks upon the Edain. Once a new Dark Lord has arisen the attacks will pick up again with new vigor, rendering Melkor's removal pointless and ensuring the failure of todays' task. No, in order to protect the humans we must mobilize all forces in Beleriand, making it imperative that all isolationists are removed. Therefore, my vote is changed to:

-- Thingol, ++ Turgon