Sauron as Annatar - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ardeth Bay · 10-18-2005, 10:44 AM

The concept at the black gate where Sauron comes forth in the guise of annatar was dumped b/c they couldn't do the size.

But doesn't his ability to take physical form in the first place mean the free peoples had lost?

And wasn't his ability to take on an appealing form lost in the downfall of Numenore

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-18-2005, 10:55 AM

I have never heard this before. Annatar? Hmm...

I thought they cancelled the idea of Sauron appearing at the Black Gate because they had already said [Fellowship] that he couldn't take physical form, and would thus be digging a hole for themselves.

Gurthang · 10-18-2005, 11:10 AM

I'm with Eomer on this one. I don't recall ever hearing about Annatar before... could you tell me where you found it? But you are correct in your statement that he cannot look appealing.

radagastly · 10-18-2005, 01:28 PM

I know that the Commentary for the extended edition says that the fight scenes between Aragorn and the Troll in the battle at the Black Gate were originally meant to be between him and Sauron, appearing as he appeared in the prologue of "Fellowship." Part of this scene was originally conceived to have Sauron appear to Aragorn as Annatar, or as a beautiful woman full of light, or one of many other silly things. I'm glad they decided against it all and kept him out of it. I think it's more effective to never really see him.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-18-2005, 01:59 PM

A beautiful woman? Just like in He-Man?

I can't believe that. Such ridiculousness surely could not have been considered.

Neurion · 10-18-2005, 03:35 PM

Here's what he would have looked like:

Annatar

Anguirel · 10-19-2005, 12:18 AM

I must say, that looks rather interesting. They should have put it in the Palantir encounter instead of all the fiddling about with Arwen's bling-bling...

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-19-2005, 07:39 AM

That picture of Sauron does seem to be Annatarish. I imagine they
considered it as a conterpoise to Galadriel when tempted by the
Ring. it would have violated book canon, but that didn't stop PJ in
other ways, such as Gandalf beating up Denethor.

I prefer Tolkien's concept of Sauron, expressed in Letters, as someone of
large size, but not gigantic, to the "swiping twenty at one blow" Sauron
in the movie prologue, although the prologue, both movie and extended
dvd, was otherwise brilliantly done.

10-18-2005, 10:44 AM	#1
Ardeth Bay Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 10	Sauron as Annatar The concept at the black gate where Sauron comes forth in the guise of annatar was dumped b/c they couldn't do the size. But doesn't his ability to take physical form in the first place mean the free peoples had lost? And wasn't his ability to take on an appealing form lost in the downfall of Numenore __________________ Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow....

10-18-2005, 10:55 AM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I have never heard this before. Annatar? Hmm... I thought they cancelled the idea of Sauron appearing at the Black Gate because they had already said [Fellowship] that he couldn't take physical form, and would thus be digging a hole for themselves. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-18-2005, 11:10 AM	#3
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I'm with Eomer on this one. I don't recall ever hearing about Annatar before... could you tell me where you found it? But you are correct in your statement that he cannot look appealing. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

10-18-2005, 01:28 PM	#4
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	I know that the Commentary for the extended edition says that the fight scenes between Aragorn and the Troll in the battle at the Black Gate were originally meant to be between him and Sauron, appearing as he appeared in the prologue of "Fellowship." Part of this scene was originally conceived to have Sauron appear to Aragorn as Annatar, or as a beautiful woman full of light, or one of many other silly things. I'm glad they decided against it all and kept him out of it. I think it's more effective to never really see him. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

10-18-2005, 01:59 PM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	A beautiful woman? Just like in He-Man? I can't believe that. Such ridiculousness surely could not have been considered. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-18-2005, 03:35 PM	#6
Neurion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Standing amidst the slaughter I have wreaked upon the orcs Posts: 258	Here's what he would have looked like: Annatar __________________ ____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly."

10-19-2005, 12:18 AM	#7
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	I must say, that looks rather interesting. They should have put it in the Palantir encounter instead of all the fiddling about with Arwen's bling-bling... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

10-19-2005, 07:39 AM	#8
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	That picture of Sauron does seem to be Annatarish. I imagine they considered it as a conterpoise to Galadriel when tempted by the Ring. it would have violated book canon, but that didn't stop PJ in other ways, such as Gandalf beating up Denethor. I prefer Tolkien's concept of Sauron, expressed in Letters, as someone of large size, but not gigantic, to the "swiping twenty at one blow" Sauron in the movie prologue, although the prologue, both movie and extended dvd, was otherwise brilliantly done. __________________ Aure Entuluva!