LotR -- Book 6 - Chapter 3 - Mount Doom

[davem]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

There were wicked people in both Old and New Testaments that God did strike down. If Eru did kill Gollum, how would that be any different?

Well, it calls into question the Commandment 'Thou shalt do no murder' - unless the corollory is 'leave that to Me.' In other words, murder per se isn't wrong, in fact, if God/Eru does it its OK.

Gollum didn't have to do the things he did. He didn't have to kill Deagol, he didn't have to use the Ring for evil purposes, but he did, and those choices all eventually led him to his death at Mt. Doom. He wasn't a puppet that Eru ordained had to do all these things so that he could be killed at Mt. Doom.

But if Gollum was wrong to take the life of Deagol to get what he wanted, & Eru killed Gollum to get what He wanted how would that be different?

Originally Posted by Formendacil

How? Either way, someone is responsible for the fact that they die. And it's not as if Eru arbitrarily gave ALL of his creatures mortality. The Elves, as I'm sure everyone's noticed, are quite free of any such constraints. Whether mortality is better or worse than immortality, the fact is that it wasn't distributed evenly.

The Elves are the exception. All other races/beings are mortal. What we're talking about here is not Gollum dying because someone shot him, because he caught some disease. etc, but because Eru willed his death when he wouldn't otherwise have died, & therefore whether Eru should be held accountable for that. If Middle-earth has the equivalent of a Judgement Day Eru is going to be in a dificult position bringing Smeagol to account for taking the life of Deagol because He has taken the life of Smeagol.

Of course, one could argue that killing Smeagol was an act of loving compassion on the behalf of Eru - seeing one of His children in torment & knowing that he could never be free of his desire for the Ring while it existed & also knowing that after its destruction he could only have endured a long painful demise He chose to release him, etc, but that would still make Eru directly responsible for the fact that Smeagol died, against his will, because Eru ended his life.

These are difficult theological questions - ones which Jung struggled with, incidentally, in Answer to Job