why do elves need to go to the undying lands? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

wilwarin538 · 10-19-2005, 06:00 PM

Quote:

And I never remember Elrond talking about Arwen dying, just about Aragorn and their potential children dying, her having to stand and watch them pass.

Well even though Arwen did choose a mortal life, it would still take a while longer for her to die. Almost like the imortality takes awhile to leave her. I think Elrond was just saying that even though Arwen would be mortal she would still out live Aragorn by quite a bit, possibly even her own children(but I doubt that).

radagastly · 10-19-2005, 07:39 PM

It should probably be mentioned at this point that those half-elven who chose mortality and their descendents (including Aragorn) had the freedom to choose the time of their death. They must die, but they could take the time to come to terms with it first, to finish their task before leaving behind the bonds of Arda. This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving.

ElentariGreenleaf · 10-20-2005, 04:10 AM

I've always felt kinda sorry for elves. I mean, surely immortal life would get kinda dull. And half-elves having to pick between immortal and mortal lives. Cruel Eru! Cruel!

Lalwendë · 10-20-2005, 06:46 AM

There is also a certain expectation that Elves will go to the Undying Lands. Those who refused to go are somewhat diminished. For Elves who have already died, who have only their Fea, to refuse to go to the Undying Lands and the Halls of Mandos is viewed as wrong. It is said that such 'houseless' Elves are incredibly vulnerable to corruption from dark forces and can be dangerous, sometimes inhabiting trees and rocks. For more, have a look at HoME X.

One question which fascinates me is how and why did Elros and Elrond come to the decisions that they made over their fate?

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-20-2005, 12:41 PM

Posted by Radagastly
"This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving."
==========

Check the appendix to LOTR. It's actually curious. Radagastly's view is that of
Aragorn's, while Arwen disagrees. As, I believe, JRRT does in Letters. But it
is a curious exchange between Aragorn and Arwen.

stevensimth3675g · 06-24-2023, 01:25 AM

Elves are indeed immortal in the sense they won't die of old age, but they can die from grief or severe wounds. The journey to the Undying Lands allows them a peaceful existence without these woes. When Elrond talks about his daughter's "death", he means her choosing a mortal life with Aragorn, which will eventually lead to her physical death, something Elves aren't accustomed to. It's a metaphorical death from his perspective as an immortal being.

Abdullah89 · 09-17-2023, 01:13 PM

In spite of their slow aging, elves are tied to the earth. In the folklore that has been established, this is why there aren't even a few elves left around today. As they get older, their spirits take control over their physical bodies until they are only spirits. The Elven Rings' strength at Rivendell and Lorien prevented what is known as the "fading of the elves" from occurring there.
____________________

10-19-2005, 07:39 PM	#2
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	It should probably be mentioned at this point that those half-elven who chose mortality and their descendents (including Aragorn) had the freedom to choose the time of their death. They must die, but they could take the time to come to terms with it first, to finish their task before leaving behind the bonds of Arda. This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving. __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

10-20-2005, 04:10 AM	#3
ElentariGreenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Look, I'm over there! Posts: 496	I've always felt kinda sorry for elves. I mean, surely immortal life would get kinda dull. And half-elves having to pick between immortal and mortal lives. Cruel Eru! Cruel! __________________ There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot. Website\|Art

10-20-2005, 06:46 AM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	There is also a certain expectation that Elves will go to the Undying Lands. Those who refused to go are somewhat diminished. For Elves who have already died, who have only their Fea, to refuse to go to the Undying Lands and the Halls of Mandos is viewed as wrong. It is said that such 'houseless' Elves are incredibly vulnerable to corruption from dark forces and can be dangerous, sometimes inhabiting trees and rocks. For more, have a look at HoME X. One question which fascinates me is how and why did Elros and Elrond come to the decisions that they made over their fate? __________________ Gordon's alive!

10-20-2005, 12:41 PM	#5
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	Posted by Radagastly "This is why I think that if Arwen had recanted her mortal choice when Aragorn died, she still could have sailed into the west and rejoined her father there, instead of journeying to Lorien and lying down on Parth Galen. That, to me, is part of what makes her passing so moving." ========== Check the appendix to LOTR. It's actually curious. Radagastly's view is that of Aragorn's, while Arwen disagrees. As, I believe, JRRT does in Letters. But it is a curious exchange between Aragorn and Arwen. __________________ Aure Entuluva!

06-24-2023, 01:25 AM	#6
stevensimth3675g Newly Deceased Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: United States Posts: 1	Elves are indeed immortal in the sense they won't die of old age, but they can die from grief or severe wounds. The journey to the Undying Lands allows them a peaceful existence without these woes. When Elrond talks about his daughter's "death", he means her choosing a mortal life with Aragorn, which will eventually lead to her physical death, something Elves aren't accustomed to. It's a metaphorical death from his perspective as an immortal being. __________________ WhatsApp Dp

09-17-2023, 01:13 PM	#7
Abdullah89 Newly Deceased Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 1	In spite of their slow aging, elves are tied to the earth. In the folklore that has been established, this is why there aren't even a few elves left around today. As they get older, their spirits take control over their physical bodies until they are only spirits. The Elven Rings' strength at Rivendell and Lorien prevented what is known as the "fading of the elves" from occurring there. ____________________ Last edited by Abdullah89; 09-18-2023 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Spam